What does the bible say about transsexuals?

When God places the mind of a woman in the physical body of a man and she has sexual re-assignment surgery in order to make her physical appearance match how she feels inside and then starts a relationship with a man, does God still consider this to be a...

man lying with a man?

Does the Church recognize the existence of transsexuals at all?

What about Down's Syndrome children? Are they created in God's image, or are they the work of Satan?

If one, God has Down's Syndrome. If the other, we need to start urging Down's Syndrome children to reject the work of Satan and choose to be intelligent.

The problem with the "God's image" argument is that eventually, one has to either accept that God makes mistakes or that we have to condemn people for things they have no control over.

There's no mention of it, and they didn't have surgery AT ALL back then. But I'm sure some christians will say God doesn't make mistakes, and he put you in the right body, you shouldn't question him, its the devil inside you, it's an abomination, etc.

something like that...

Of course they had surgery. There's evidence of surgery dating back to prehistory, nearly 20,000 years ago.

Of course, the devoutly religious do not believe there WAS a "20,000 years ago," so that puts that argument in a bit of a pickle.

But there is plenty of evidence of surgery during the time of the Israelites. There's entire surviving surgical procedural manuals dating back nearly 4,000 years before Christ. How successful they were, of course, is another matter.

But Christians have never been shy about applying the teachings of the Bible to new time periods, and surely this subject has been broached before now.

I dont really know, I dont think theyve ever mentioned it. but I think that God put you in that body and so you should leave in that body the way you came.

The reaction of conservatives to any question along these lines - anything about sex, basically - is pretty predictable. It's wrong. Always. No matter what. Especially if it's enjoyable.

I say "conservatives", because it's a view that's shared more by conservatives than by any one religion (though Christianity seems to have more than its fair share of conservatives).

fiji: Apparrently god created virii, bacteria, parasites and cancers, too. If one infects you, will you piously turn down all treatment, since clearly god wanted it that way?

Don't forget that little fish that swims up your urethra if you pee in the river. He made those, too.

Well I know for a fact that there were men (Romans if I'm not mistaken) that were having sex with men in the Bible and the Lord said that was wrong. He made man for women, not men for men. It really doesn't matter about the surgery aspect, because you were still born a man, and if you ever do meet a man that wants to be with you he'd have to know that you were born a man or you'll just be living a life of dishonesty. Which would have to be lonely.

So the options are "be lonely" or..."be lonely." Nice.

The bible says that man was created in Gods image, and he created them male and female.

We live in a society where many do not know what gender they are.

This is the work of the enemy.

They were not created that way.

Satan is a deceiver, and he hates God, and Gods creation, he can't harm God, except thru his creation, the man (both male & female) that God loves, that was created in his image.

The bible says that we do not war with flesh and blood, but with principalities, and powers of the air, wickedness in high places, that is the mind, of men, or our own mind, the warfare takes place there, and we win or loose, according to the tools we use. God has given us scripture, prayer, fasting, ect, that will bring down the strongholds, that stand between us and him. It is his will for us to use those tools, to be free.

If you had a child, and that child somehow, became convinced that he/she was something other than a child, born in your image, how would you feel?

God loves his creation, even in its fallen state. He does everything he can to help that creation to live productively, and happy, and in accordance with his original plan.

It is not his intention for a person to be mixed up about what sex they are.

He can bring deliverance, when this happens, if that person will seek him, with all his heart.

Fasting is designed to break the yoke of bondage, in a person.

Anything less than freedom, is bondage.

And by freedom, I do not mean that anything goes, I mean that as long as we follow Gods spirit, we can be free.

Free from bondage, free from slavery, free from condemnation, free from sin.
Free to follow the Living God.

Not mixed up...

Not, nowing who or what we are, or were meant to be.

Whatever condition your soul is in, please run to God, and not from him. He will receive you, forgive you, and bring you peace.

God makes you who you are while in the womb. He does not put a mind of a woman in a mans body. If He wanted that man to be a woman then he would make her such that. So, yes, I do believe if a man has surgery to become a woman, God still considers it man laying with man. God made him a man because he wanted him to be a man. Period.

Dawnathen presents the other side of the argument -- that anything that goes against the man+woman equation is unnatural and therefore against God. But homosexual behavior has been observed in over 1,500 animal species. The pairings of the black swan alone are over 25% homosexual. Giraffe's have been observed having all-male sexual orgies. Is Satan at work in swans and giraffes?

From http://jcem.endojour...:
"Transsexualism is connected with a difference in the human brain called the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis. In one study, male-to-female transsexuals and cisgendered women were shown to have brains that were similar to each other in the BSTc area of the brain. Both heterosexual and homosexual men showed male brain structuring in this area."

Christians pick and choose what they want to follow, and then find Biblical support for their preferences. Even fundamentalists, who claim otherwise, are doing that, by starting with the assumptions that; the Bible is written as one consistent tome, it is inerrant, it is complete - unsupportable ideas driven by the fear of ignorance.

In more liberal branches of Christianity, I'm sure transexuals are welcome with open arms. After all, there are openly gay ministers in some branches.

In other words, it really doesn't matter what the Bible says on the topic, because the Bible is not the ultimate source of Christian beliefs - tradition is.

Down's Syndrome or any other child with a handicap are not works of Satan. God makes people the way they are for many reasons. Nobody really knows those reasons until it just "hits" them. My nephew is Autistic. He has been the biggest blessing in my sister and her husbands life. He changed they way they live and their complete outlook on life. By that, God is glorified. Some people, however, that have children with handicaps don't see it that way. My auntie has a son, he is now 18 years old. He is severely retarded, he has anywhere from 80 to 150 "drop seizures" a day, He has 2-3 grand mal seizures a month, he cannot talk, he cannot use the bathroom on his own, and he cannot ever be left alone. My auntie, of course, loves him with everything she has. But... sometimes she asks herself if there is a God and why would he do this to her. Her son, my cousin, I see as a huge blessing. When I was younger, my auntie used to tease the "retarded" people walking through the mall, in stores, on the beach, or just walking down the street. I used to get so embarrased by it. God blessed her with a child of the same nature and now she see's what she used to be like and it hurts her feelings really bad. She told me not too long ago that if she could go back and take all those remarks back, she would do it in a split second. She feels horrible for what she used to say.

Just because children are born with mild to severe handicaps doesn't mean they are works of Satan. And Yes, MAN was created in Gods image.

Toadaly, Please realize that not all Christians can be lumped together, the same way no two religions or non religions should be lumped together.

I will admit, tradition has a big part in the way many Christians believe. I do not think that all of us are like that though. I am a supporter of the bible, even though I know that many of it's words were changed to control the masses. I understand that. I get it. But I do not believe that God would let His word become so corrupted that it would lead too many astray. It's bad enough when people add new books to the bible and change the wording in our culture today. Many cults have been created thus. Paul had many words about this, trying to keep the Word clean.

That being said, somewhere along the lines, some Christians decided it was their place to judge others, forgetting what Jesus said about the first stone. Let him who is sinless cast the first stone. It makes you think doesn't it?

Personally, from what I have read I have not seen anything about transsexuals. This is not to say that it is not there. It is just to say that I have not seen it yet. Now that being said, it does say in the bible that to PRACTICE homosexuality is a sin. To be gay is not. Just the practice. Again, a totally lonely life.

I do not have all the answers, and you will never hear me say I do. The day I stop learning will be the day I die. So I am not sure what to tell you other than it is only the practice that is condemned.

And for Christians yes I know that Jesus said if you do it in your mind it is a sin, but instead of Judging others we should pray for them.

dawnathen: So why are homosexual people "the work of satan", but people with genetic disorders such as downs' syndrome not? Who decides what things are "the work of satan" and what aren't? And if god "does not put a mind of a woman in a mans body", why does he make other mistakes like creating children with congenital and genetic defects?

God tells us what to do. If we don't listen to what he says then that is our choice. God doesn't make us do or not do what he says. He's pretty much just the TOP BANANA making the rules. If we follow them then we are following God's word, if we choose not to then that has nothing to do with a decision of God.
In God's eyes practicing homosexuality is no different from being gay. A sin is a sin, no matter what.

I never said homosexuals are the works of satan. Like I said before children born with these kinds of handicaps are blessings. We love them just as much as we love our children that are not handicapped. God isn't making a mistake by creating these children either. It sounds to me you have a lot to learn about God if you think he is making mistakes by creating such blessings.

Nothing is the work of Satan. He is not a creator. When we all sin and do bad things, Satan is happy. Satan doesn't makes us do bad things. It just makes him extremely happy to see people disobey God.

***Of course they had surgery. There's evidence of surgery dating back to prehistory, nearly 20,000 years ago.***

Evidence of surgery isn't PROOF of surgery, and I don't consider hacking off a limb, or mutilation, to be surgery. Besides, that's a long way from 'gender bending'

I agree captain!

"Evidence of surgery isn't PROOF of surgery"

That sentence just made my brain cave in.

Regardless, there is plenty of -- sigh -- proof that fairly complicated surgery was being performed 5,000 years ago. Ignoring the physical evidence of bodies with indications of surgical procedures, works like the Edwin-Smith Papyrus, the Huangdi Neijing script of China, and the extensive works of Hippocrates, to name but three, survive from antiquity to detail medical procedures far more complex than, as you say "hacking off a limb" or "mutilation."

But I wasn't addressing sexual-reassignment surgery specifically, merely your assertion that "they didn't have surgery AT ALL back then."