What do you have against christians?

This is not a hate-question

I just want to ask those who arent christians -what are your veiws on christianity?
Do you think we are deluded?
Are there any common mistakes in dealing with people that you think we make?

stopandsmell theroses, I have seen much of the debunking evolution websites, and to call them junk science would be an insult to junk scientists. Evolution is almost universally accepted in scientific communities. The proof of it is overwhelming.

Stem cell research is the research into using embryonic stem cells to cure many diseases. Many zealots think this is somehow going against god somehow.

"according to Chrisitanity, God is the judge of morality, and Jesus (who we believe is God) taught that you should not commit adultery; ie,its immoral"

This is exxactly my point. NOT EVERYONE IS A CHRISTIAN!!! I am the judge of what is moral to me, no one else. If you want to look to some thing as inknowable as a diety for morals fine. But morals personal. We have laws to deal with is right and wrong in society.

"As a Christian (I will be using this opening of a sentence quite a lot, I think), I believe people should not practise homosexuality, as it is 'immoral', according to the Bible. and no, you are not born with it, you can get help.(you as in generally, not you specific)"

You can believe what you want, but you, or anyone else has no say it what other people do in private. Are you a trained psychologist for you to say that you are not born, or that you can change? Even if it was by choice, who the f**k cares. It is none of your business.

"we are told to tell everyone about Jesus. We are SUPPOSED to be zealots. Okay, I admit this is not helping my case. But it’s the truth. Some people do witness by shoving it down your throat cause that's how they are. If you ever catch me doing that, I give you permission to flame me, lol. Atm I am just trying to state my beliefs clearly (and therefore quite bluntly, soz)"

This is exactly why you get so much animosity from non-believers. You act as if we know nothing of your religion and are just naive and ignorant about it. Most athiests I know were raised christian or jewish. We don't want you to convert us, so stop trying. Even my wife doesn't try to do that.

"Who goes to care for the sick in underdeveloped countries without pay? The ‘ignorant’, the ‘intolerant’ and the ‘bigoted’ zealots."

Yes, many religious organzations do lots of charitable work. I applaud that, as long as they are not doing in exchange for ones belief in christianity. But doing good works is not the monopoly of religion Lots of non-religious organizations do it plenty. The UN for one, or the red cross, or habitat for humanity.

"Der. Like Christmas- it’s the celebration of Jesus’ birthday, but it happens in the winter solstice, because that’s when the Romans had their feast to… I think it was the Sun God. When really Jesus’s birthday would have been in summer, or the shepherds wouldn’t have been outside on a winter’s night! But none of that stuff actually has much to do with our beliefs, so I don’t see how it’s relevant. We call them Christian because the heart of the celebration (or whatever is in question) is Christian. Aurghh. This is the clearest I can put it.  hope you guys get what I mean."

I know this was directed at baldwinwolf, but I just asked a question the other day about this very subject. There is virtually nothing in the christianity that was not derived from pagan religions. Not just the dates of holidays and non-religious symbolism like xmas trees and easter eggs. Basic core beliefs, like the virgin birth, god becoming man, communion, baptism, the ressurection. Every single miracle attributed to christ was adopted from the pagans.

Google pagan origins of christianity. You might learn something.

um...
eye for an eye is out- love your enemies is in.
bt thx 4 replying!

Christianity is the most prosecuted religion in the world. Just thought you might find that interesting. : )

I am married to a christian, and my kids have been brough up christian. So I have nothing against christian per se. But I do have problems with close-minded and religiously judgemental thnking. People who try to deny evolution, stem cell research, and other science are just ignorant. People who claim others are being immoral because of what they do as consenting adults in the privacy of their own home are just plain intolerant. And people who want to deny americans their right to marry the person they love are just bigots.

So my problems with christians is limited only to the zealots. Most people practice their religion privately and don't try to shove it down peoples throats.

I totally agree with Jimahl when he says 'So my problems with christians is limited only to the zealots.'

In my opinion it is mainly the christian zealots that offend others and go a long way towards giving christianity a bad name. The same goes for the zealots and extremists in other religions.

I mean, one would not usually ask the KKK to give them an unbiased overview of the Christian faith any more than one would ask Bin Laden for an unbiased overview of the Moslem faith.

However, it is generally the extremists and Zealots in any religion that shout loudest and are therefore the ones that we see on the news and read about in the media.

The moderates are not interesting enough for the media so they tend to get sidelined.

Just my view.

the problems as I see it are this

the "witnessing " from the perspective of your beliefs being exclusively the only right belief- and everyone else is wrong.

the hypocrisy involved in living a life of righteousness, but then breaking every rule possible, and asking for forgiveness.

taking the "book" and deciding what you choose to believe in and discarding the rest.

the many different "sects" following different truths that originate from the same source.

the lure of having a reward for good behaviour here on earth, and using that as a selling point to believe in your beliefs.

the facts that christianity at its beginning was simply a conglomeration of the differing beliefs of the time- picked through and arranged into a new form.

not accepting that a lot of things which you call christian are indeed pagan in origin.

well that is simply a small list- but good for a start.
'

"do you think we are deluded? "

Not really. I just think most Christians are unaware of the origins of their religion, and of the Bible, which is unfortunate because that history is really worth knowing if you're going to commit your life to the Christian faith. And I think the reason most people are Christians is either because that's what they were raised with, or because they need to believe in something bigger than themselves.

"are there any common mistakes in dealing with people that you think we make?"

The most common mistake I see Christians make is this: when they decide to engage a non-Christian, especially an atheist, in debate, they enter the discussion with the intention of turning that person around to their way of thinking. They often refuse to even consider that the other person may have a valid point or opinion on things. If the discussion ends and the person hasn't converted, the Christian honestly believes it is because their heart is being hardened, and they need to be prayed for.

I have seen a few Christians on this board, especially flossheal and aarthur001, bring up some very valid points that gave me food for thought. And they did the same with things they read on this board posted by atheists and others. However, most Christians do not do this, and it's frustrating.

aurgh! only andy's answer is showing up! nobody else's!

will check later

matt18091: Do you really think Christianity is the most persecuted religion in the world? That is a pretty bold statement. There are places in the world where Christians are a minority and are persecuted but then again there are places where they are the majority and persecute other religions. Since Christianity is the largest religion in the world they are more often the oppressors than the opressed.

I don't have anything against the Christian religion. It is when believers try to force their views on me that I dislike it. Some Christians who believe that a soul magically enters every zygote upon conception don't want anyone to be able to have an abortion. Some Christians who believe that homosexuality is a sin don't want homosexuals to have the same rights straight people do. Some Christians who read the Bible literally want to take the scientific theory of evolution out of textbooks and replace it with thinly veiled religous stories called Creationism.

I'm a strong believer that everyone should be able to follow their conscience so long as by doing so they are not preventing someone from following theirs. it is when people are so sure they are right that they have to force other people to follow the same rules that I oppose it.

@jimahl:

--"People who try to deny evolution, stem cell research, and other science are just ignorant."

a point that I cannot state as a valid reason for believing evolution did not happen, but think about the fact that if God exists, then He is all powerful, so why would He create a single-celled organism to evolve into people (btw, mutations can't add DNA information, they can only take it away, so what do you take from a single celled organism to produce us as we know ourselves?)

go and check up on the evidence for evolution, then go to a site like answersingenesis.com and see what they say against that. then go google some more.

have you checked all the facts or just accepted evolution without questioning it?

I do not deny physics and stuff like that. in fact, I want to have a career in the sciences when I leave school.

not sure what stem cell research is, so I can't address this one.

--"People who claim others are being immoral because of what they do as consenting adults in the privacy of their own home are just plain intolerant."

according to Chrisitanity, God is the judge of morality, and Jesus (who we believe is God) taught that you should not commit adultery; ie,its immoral

--"And people who want to deny americans their right to marry the person they love are just bigots."

As a Christian (I will be using this opening of a sentence quite a lot, I think), I believe people should not practise homosexuality, as it is 'immoral', according to the Bible. and no, you are not born with it, you can get help.(you as in generally, not you specific)

--"So my problems with christians is limited only to the zealots. Most people practice their religion privately and don't try to shove it down peoples throats."

we are told to tell everyone about Jesus. We are SUPPOSED to be zealots. Okay, I admit this is not helping my case. But it’s the truth. Some people do witness by shoving it down your throat cause that's how they are. If you ever catch me doing that, I give you permission to flame me, lol. Atm I am just trying to state my beliefs clearly (and therefore quite bluntly, soz)

Who goes to care for the sick in underdeveloped countries without pay? The ‘ignorant’, the ‘intolerant’ and the ‘bigoted’ zealots.

@ baldinwolf:

--"the 'witnessing ' from the perspective of your beliefs being exclusively the only right belief- and everyone else is wrong."

How is it wrong? By genuinely trying to save people from Hell? These are not the mad ravings of a lunatic. I am thinking this through. I do question my religion whenever some seemingly irrefutable question comes up in my life, and God has never failed me yet.

--“the hypocrisy involved in living a life of righteousness, but then breaking every rule possible, and asking for forgiveness."

Hey. We are human. You have probably heard something like this ‘we’re-just-like-you’ tagline from numerous other people, but the fact remains is, we are. So of course we sin. We’re not supposed to, I know, but we do. Thing is, there’s also a catch- its not just preaching a free ride- the Bible also says that if you plan to sin and say, it doesn’t matter, God’ll forgive me afterwards, there comes a time when it just doesn’t work like that anymore, no heaven for you. Its abusing trust.

--"taking the 'book' and deciding what you choose to believe in and discarding the rest."

Give me an example. PLEASE!! People always say stuff like that and they never give even one example. And I have never done that.

--"the many different 'sects' following different truths that originate from the same source."

Sects. With this one, you have to filter through and see what the Bble actually says. God did not create sects. People created sects and cults and stuff. So pretty much my theory is this: the beliefs are fine. It’s the people who stuff it up.

--"the lure of having a reward for good behaviour here on earth, and using that as a selling point to believe in your beliefs."

This is a common misconception. We are getting something for nothing. You do not get to heaven by doing good stuff, you get there by the grace of God. If we got into heaven based on how good we were, we’d all be in Hell’s equivalent of maximum security.

--"the facts that christianity at its beginning was simply a conglomeration of the differing beliefs of the time- picked through and arranged into a new form."

You were not there. This is just an opinion.
Where are any of these beliefs shown, in any religion? This is not a rhetorical question, I truly am interested.

"not accepting that a lot of things which you call christian are indeed pagan in origin."

Der. Like Christmas- it’s the celebration of Jesus’ birthday, but it happens in the winter solstice, because that’s when the Romans had their feast to… I think it was the Sun God. When really Jesus’s birthday would have been in summer, or the shepherds wouldn’t have been outside on a winter’s night! But none of that stuff actually has much to do with our beliefs, so I don’t see how it’s relevant. We call them Christian because the heart of the celebration (or whatever is in question) is Christian. Aurghh. This is the clearest I can put it.  hope you guys get what I mean.

@mjax:

I’ll bet.

So in conclusion to my lengthy… thing… the key point of Christianity is this:

-if you believe Jesus is your saviour and you accept Him as your Saviour, you are going to Heaven.

everything else to do with Christianity is secondary.

If you want Bible references, let me know.

Thx for bringing stuff up, bwolf and jimahl esp.

God bless,
love Stef

I think you are all deluded.

Buy I still love you all :-) Sort of like my crazy aunt.

I'm an atheist.I have nothing "against" Christians in the sense of hating them. I do think they are deluded,as are all believers in a supernatural deity. Unfortunately many Christians,Muslims etc. DO seem to have considerable dislike or even hate for those they consider non-believers I.e. people who do not share their belief. Witness Muslim terrorism,Christian oppression as demonstarted by witch hunts,Spanish Inquisition, persecution of Catholics by Protestants and Muslim Shias by Sunnis etc. etc.,
My objections are to the imposition of religious "law" or convention on we non-believers. Thankfully in the UK we are dismantling the old Sunday observance laws and seeing the views of the churches of Rome and England reduced to their proper,fringe, importance. I certainly look upon any call to increase religious interference in our everyday life (as with calls for Sharia (?) law) as a step back into the dark ages.
Leogee

here is the proof you have been seeking- you ask a simple question- and then come up with an argument of why us non christians are wrong.
do I dare say it- I AM WITH JIMAHL ON THIS ONE, may be shocking but yes jimahl you hit it dead on.

there are a lot of chapters which have been removed from the bible - THE BOOK OF ESTER, is the only one that currently comes to mind- but if you seek ye shall find- happy hunting.

and 'witnessing' to people who do not want to hear your message is wrong, it is stating that beyond a doubt- you are right, and every non christian is wrong.
to me the truth is the truth- to be arrived at by ones own study and life experience.
I do not need someone else to tell me what to believe- I have a mind of my own, I can find my own way.

indeed I wasn't there at the creation of christianity- I didn't need to be, if you step back and take an open minded look at it (after studying all religions) you will clearly see how christianity is a conglomeration of other beliefs. here is an example- the great flood- noahs ark, can be found in another text- it is called the epic of Gilgamesh, Sumerian in origin- adopted and renamed by the christians and placed into the bible.

as far as the sects thing goes- christianity began as a CULT, it is well documented and excepted, if I were to write a book about christianity it would be titled "THE LITTLE CULT THAT COULD' so each and every 'sect' believes that the others are misinformed. when they all have the same core truth- how is this possible? to have many truths originating from one truth. to me the truth is the truth and cannot be misinterpreted. and yet followers of christ have found ways to reinterpret this so called truth.

I know a lot of you christians disagree with my pointing out these similarities but here
they are.
the four elements used in pagan and wiccan witchcraft
earth- used in christian burial ceremonies- ashes to ashes dust to dust- sound familiar- picking up a handful of earth and tossing it on the casket? PAGAN

air- the incense burner used in most church ceremonies- the pleasant smelling smoke in the air- PAGAN

fire- the candles which light the church services - PAGAN

water- baptism ceremonies, using holy water to cleanse- PAGAN

taking communion- drink this for it is my blood, eat this for it is my body- ritualistic cannibalism and blood drinking - this one speaks for itself

using protective talismans- the cross, the st christopher medal- protective talismans- PAGAN

there was a gathering of bishops and the pope in one of the centuries and they took the bible and made decisions on what to keep and what not to- I forget the name of this meeting, but in this meeting they threw out a lot of bible chapters as unsuitable, and I believe came up with the king james version of the bible. your bible has been abridged so many times- I am surprised that any original chapters remain. again to say seek this truth and ye shall find.

to jump at the hypocrisy thing- if you join a club that has strict rules to follow, and yet someone pulls you aside and tells you that you don't really have to follow any of the rules- what is the point of having the club in the first place? kind of defeats the purpose, don't you think?

I look back at the time before christinanity hit these shores, and I don't see innocent ignorant savages living pitiful lives- but prospering , very religious minded people, who believed in their ancestors, and believed in their place on this planet, and understood nature as she was meant to be understood, and led very meaningful lives, before the introduction of christian beliefs. there were so many different peoples like our native americans who were getting along just fine without christ in their lives- and what did the 'witnesses' of christ bring them disease and intolerance, prejudice, hair cuts and european clothes. a lifestyle forced on them at the point of a firearm. does that seem righteous to you?

I guess that I will cut this short- and state- I was a christian, I did believe, I was being brainwashed in sunday school, and thankfully I was able to break away from it, and ffind my own truth- a truth which I push on no one, I do not promote my beliefs unless pushed to defend my position. the truth to me is somehing deeply spiritual and personal, and something that is entirely mine, only to be shared with those who have found the way to the truth I have found. there are christians I have met that believe this way- and I am proud to call them friends, they do not force their beliefs on me- nor I on them- that is the spirit of true friendship- to all of them- they know who they are- I thank you for allowing me to be me, and I am glad that they are who they are.
to the christians that will continue to try and SAVE ME I do not need to be saved, and in the spirit of my ancestors I will fight you tooth and nail, and defend my beliefs.

so there you have it stopandsmelltheroses do a little bit of studying, and try not to flaunt your religious beliefs upon those that do not want it.

*** "Do you think we are deluded?"

Bluntly, yes. But if it's any consolation, it's no different than any other religion.

*** "Are there any common mistakes in dealing with people that you think we make?"

Oh hell yes. For example, quoting the Bible to nonbelievers, particularly the verses that refer to unbelievers as fools or swine, is horribly counterproductive and rude as well. Telling nonbelievers "I'm praying for you" comes off as uncaring condescension. I don't need you to talk to yourself for me. Pushing laws that have no legitimate secular purpose to satiate your religious whims causes others to rally against you. Talking to MY kids about YOUR religion leads me to try to deconvert you and your kids so that my family can live in peace.

...not to mention small incidents like the Inquisition, persecution of 'heretics', the witch trials, etc. ... tend to be perceived poorly by outsiders. You guys might want to stop doing that sort of thing.

I have no particular views on christianity... it's a big religion with every sect having it's own beliefs, so I cant generalize...

do I think you're deluded? - again, it depends on the christian... but yes I do think some christians are deluded

common mistakes - I dont know if this is a mistake or simply a complaint on my part, but instead of addressing issues (for example, I quote the bible's contradictions, or the bible saying women cant talk in church) and instead of addressing this, it turns into aethists are against God and the bible... atleast admit it when you're wrong (contradictions do exist), or try and explain how you're right...

one of my problems with christians is when they make a statement, word it as a question just so they can further their agenda.
I also think that the definition of zealot is needed...
1capitalized : a member of a fanatical sect arising in Judea during the first century a.d. and militantly opposing the Roman domination of Palestine
2: a zealous person; especially : a fanatical partisan <a religious zealot>

god might want you to spread the word but saying "we are told to tell everyone about Jesus. We are SUPPOSED to be zealots."
many christians ignore and show disrespect for other faiths.

you have orion, a christian, stating that "Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.' (Aids? )'

you have justsearching, a christian, telling jimahl "With a name like yours on this site I wouldn't be supprised if you aren't from a muslim background. Maybe you are just one of the ones that are trying to stir up strife. "

you have silverwings, a christian, state "Satan provided the theory of evolution"

you have livinlikechrist, a christian, state "evolution is not possible anyway, it is a theory, and actually, science proves it incorrect. its just a fun story, scientists say..."

and in answer to a question about gay rights you, stopandsmelltheroses, a christian, state "no offence but im against them."

you have a bunch of people, in the name of jesus, saying some pretty horrible and downright false things. stating that they are against the rights of others, that homosexuals receive AIDS for their sin, saying that satan developed the theory of evolution, etc...all to further their agenda.

anyone who does not think like a christian, is going to hell. and anyone that develops ideas that are different from the bible is of satan, and if you don't believe that jesus is your savior you are going to hell...

I guess the BIGGEST PROBLEM THAT I HAVE WITH SOME CHRISTIANS IS THAT I DON'T SEE THEM PRACTICING WHAT THEY PREACH. I DON'T SEE THEM FOLLOWING THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS.

I don't see empathy, sympathy, understanding, respect, grace and so on.

Bonno is a Christian many great people are Christians and just because you don't see them practicing what they preach just means that either they are in a bad mood or aren't serious Christian. P.s. I am a Christian

well I dont beleive in any "god" or anything do do with that
christians tend to force there religion on other people, if someone doesnt beleive, its suddenly there job to help them to.
if your not saved, your not going to heaven, ect, ect
"god did it" is the answer to everything
nothing religiouse makes sense to me, theres no logical thinking behind any of the things realated to it. none at all.
but im fine with people beleive in religion, god ect as lond as they dont force it upon other people, they keep it to themselves
in a lot of cases, true, REAL christianity is like a cult.
but really its just like sterotyping. every sterotype has things that they beleive are good, and things that they beleive in god.
and really, nothing anyone says is going to make be beleive otherwise.
but again, if they keep it to themselves then I dont care

Wow.
I'm putting my hands in hot water, hope I don't get burnt.
"MY" personal opinion is, (after reading through all the comments) somehow something so nice and beautiful turns into a debate. "I" choose to believe, in God through "FAITH" and due to many of the statements above, I only witness to people that ask or I feel will benefit with an "open heart/mind".

I can understand as weird or logical as it may seem, both forms of thinking, way of living, believing,not believing, doubts, questions it all makes sense.
We are all humans with choices, therefore, we cannot make anybody understand or believe in what we do esp.when it comes to christianity), afterall, God, Bible, gospel, etc., it's all complex.

To my christian friends all I can say is "life itself is a battlefield" and to all my non-christian friends "life itself is a battlefield". I rather make friends than enemies. I choose to respect whatever you believe in and keep you as my friend than to make an enemy because of my choice of life. Somehow we all have a purpose in life let's just make the best of it.
For us believers in a higher power, let God be the judge
not you or I. Only He knows the time and place.
I really don't like confrontation, not even when it comes to cyberspace. Please don't personalize above, these are merely my thoughts and opinions. Thanks.

I'm pretty sure I'll get burned for this, but
amoeba, you are right on some part, the christians that say rude things don't give a good reflection on Christianity(before you say something about the comment I made about christians being the only ones doing anything for children in other countries, it was a mistake, I apologized, and put it behind me, it was a rude offensive comment), but even non christians believe that mistakes can be made, right?

"and in answer to a question about gay rights you, stopandsmelltheroses, a christian, state 'no offence but im against them."

I want to know(non-sarcastic), why it's not good for a Christian to be against gay rights, if it's something you believe isn't right, why can't you. I mean when nonchristians say they don't believe in God, or christians are wrong, is that any different. why can't a christian be against gay rights? I'll be glad to say I'm against it, but if a gay person walked into my church, I wouldn't announce it to everyone and tell that person there not allowed to come to church.in God any different.

well, first of all, you did apologize and that is a HUGE thing to me. that is water under the bridge as far as I am concerned. the people I was referring to NEVER apologize, no matter how offensive the comment. your's paled in comparison.

I believe there is a BIG difference between saying you don't believe in god or that christians are wrong and saying that you don't believe in gay rights. one is a personal decision that effects only the person saying it. the other is saying that you would deny civil rights to others.

I didn't say that a christian can't be against gay rights, I just think that it is a judgmental opinion that I want no part of.

attending church is not what I consider to be part of the denied rights of homosexuals. a church might not want you but you have the legal right to be there.

as coretta scott king, widow of martin luther king, jr. stated
"Freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation is surely a fundamental human right in any great democracy, as much as freedom from racial, religious, gender, or ethnic discrimination. I have worked too long and hard against segregated public accommodations to end up segregating my moral concern. Justice is indivisible. Like Martin, I don’t believe you can stand for freedom for one group of people and deny it to others."

julian bond, civil rights activist and NAACP Board Chairman stated "”No, it's my objective to say, you can believe whatever you want to believe but marriage is a CIVIL affair, and you don't have a right to impose your rights on the civil society. If you want to say gay people can't be married in your church, OK. But you can't say they can't be married in City Hall because of something you read in the Bible.”

”Gay and lesbian rights are not ‘special rights’ in any way. It isn’t ‘special’ to be free from discrimination – it is an ordinary, universal entitlement of citizenship. The right not to be discriminated against is a common-place claim we all expect to enjoy under our laws and our founding document, the Constitution. That many had to struggle to gain these rights makes them precious – it does not make them special and it does not reserve them only for me or restrict them from others.”

I just don't understand how someone can want to deny civil rights to a person based on sexual orientation.

just as I don't understand how, throughout history, many religious groups have worked to deny civil rights to people based on race, religion or gender.