The confederate flag--why?

Why is it that people from the southwest use the confederate flag? I went to basic combat training in SC, and in one 'class' they asked if anyone thought that it was racist to put the Confederate flag on their car or for it to be flown in front of federal buildings. I would like to know how that can NOT be considered not only racist, but also un-American as well. It would be the same if Germany still used the Nazi flag.

This is an article I found to support my feelings on this issue.

Confederate Flag still an issue?
eastcarolinian ^ | October 14, 2004 | Peter Kalajian

Posted on 10/19/2004 5:14:54 PM PDT by stainlessbanner

As I drove down 5th street yesterday, I spied a bumper sticker that addresses an issue I have been waiting for an excuse to write about. It was in the back window of a pickup truck, whose ability to operate I found simply amazing, strategically situated between an empty gun rack and another sticker depicting Calvin (of Calvin and Hobbes fame) urinating on 'Osama' with a devilish grin on his face.

I will leave the 'Osama' reference and defamation of an innocent newspaper comic strip character alone for the purposes of this article, and will concentrate on the content of the other bumper sticker. It was a simple, Confederate flag, next to which was written the words, 'Heritage not Hate'. Now, if I have ever read something more deserving of one of my diatribes, I cannot recall.

This statement, which for the record I believe to be sheer nonsense, speaks of an issue with which I had very limited experience before relocating to North Carolina, but an issue of importance nonetheless.

All my life, the Confederate flag was something of a joke to me. M history classes in high school and earlier had taught me that the Confederate defeat during the Civil War was a good thing, that the moral argument against slavery (espoused by the Lincoln government in Washington) was a black and white issue, about right and wrong, and that the Union triumph is 1865 was righteous.

Granted, the history I was taught spoke from a biased perspective, from the moral high ground of the abolitionists and northern intellectuals, and never really addressed the true, underlying reasons for the Civil War, which I would come to learn much later. After considering all the information I have been able to locate on the subject, after long hours of trying to understand just where the Confederacy was coming from and why they wanted to defend their way of life, I have come to a few conclusions.

Naturally, these conclusions reflect my upbringing and Northern perspective, and I am more than confident than my loyal readers will have more than a few comments of their own to contribute.

First of all, 'Heritage not Hate', is an extreme cop out. Sure, the Confederate flag, displayed in the year 2004, some 140 years after the actual conflict ended, may stand for some long forgotten Southern pride issue. It may stand for the struggles that people in the Southeastern region of the United States suffered through and the wars that they fought.

It may stand for some perceived difference between the North and South, which apparently has persisted to this day, and may fondly recall the era of Southern dominance of the United States.

Woops, little mistake there. The South has never 'dominated' anything. It is another region within the greater whole, just as it was then and remains so today. As for the 'Not Hate' part of the bumper sticker, a more laughable statement I cannot recall. There are far too many damning coincidences that will forever relegate the Stars and Bars to the level of racist propaganda.

Why is it that hate groups all over the country, to this day, fly the Confederate flag as a symbol of their ideology. White Supremacist organizations, the sad, pitiful remnants of the Klu Klux Klan, along with many other neo-Nazi and racially motivated groups all include the Confederate flag amongst their symbols of worship.

Is this coincidence? Are people who fly the Confederate flag, be it in bumper sticker form or on the end of a flagpole, trying to align themselves with such openly evil and backward-thinking organizations? I don't think so. I think that people fly the flag to recall the once glorious Confederated states of America and celebrate their history, while at the same time somehow overlooking the racial implications inherent in the very symbol they hold so high.

Make no mistake. Whether you choose to recognize it or not, the fact remains the same: The Confederate flag is a racist symbol. It was during the Civil War, it remains so today. I challenge anyone to show me an African-American person with a Confederate Flag bumper sticker or 'The South will rise again' written in their computers screensaver.

Is this a coincidence? You would sooner find a swastika flying outside the Israel embassy as you would a Confederate flag flying at an N.A.A.C.P rally. To me, the symbols have long been morally relative to each other. Both stand for hate, oppression, and the wanton murder and destruction of a group of people because of some perceived inferiorities. Plantation owners in the South, before and during the Civil War, treated slaves the same way they treated horses and sheep.

They were not human beings, quite the contrary. They could be bought and sold like farm equipment and with as much compassion. So to during the Nazi era in Germany; Jews were not considered people in the same way that German citizens were, therefore their wholesale murder could be justified. Anyone who cannot see the glaring similarities between the Confederate flag and the Swastika needs to pick up a history book and do some research.

If you care to display a symbol that represents the brutality and viciousness and lack of humanity that was involved in something like the slave trade, as the Confederate flag clearly does, you are entitled. The first Amendment to the Constitution allows you the freedom to display just about whatever you care to, but consider this. If you are going to fly the Stars and Bars, don't sugar coat it. Don't downplay the racial aspects and idealize the cultural aspects. They are one in the same.

Be up front and honest about your feelings. Confederacy= Hate I think would be a far more realistic bumper sticker, and as we speak I am in negotiations to have a number of said bumper stickers produced. Let us just call a spade a spade and forget about the 'Heritage not Hate' nonsense. It is hateful, you know it is, and beating around the bush about it only takes away from the power of the argument. Let the responsive mud slinging commence

First of all, the 'Stars and Bars' that people commonly refer to as he 'Confederate Flag'
is not...it is the Confederate Battle Flag -flown by the Confederate Army during the War Between the States, commonly referred to as the 'Civil War' (Although there is nothing civil about ANY war). The actual Confederate Flag is completely different - check Wikipedia, or similar sites to view the correct flag. The Battle flag, is not a symbol of
racism, slavery, or anything else of this nature...remember that the war was NOT fought over the issue of slavery. Less than three percent of Southerners owned slaves, and slavery bagan in the Union States (hence the term 'Yankee Slaver') The war was fought over tariffs imppsed upon the Southern States, by the North. All raw materials had to come first into a Yankee port, and be taxed in excise, and all manufactured goods, cotton, rice, etc, had to be taxed again, before being exported from the Southern States. Slavery was on it's way out, and was reprehensible to most persons Northern or Southern. The South seceded from the Union -desiring to be self governed rather than be taxed to death, and regulated by Washington D.C.
and the inherent bureaucracy with all it's all to well known shortcomings. Thus began the bloodiest war in our Nation's history. Lincoln never freed any slaves - another myth. As President of the U.S. he had power and authority to free slaves in the Union States, but by then there were no more slaves in the North. He had no authority to free anyone in an enemy country during a war. The President of the Confederate States was Jefferson Davis, and only he could have 'freed' anyone within the bounds of his jurisdiction. The Discovery channel did a series on the facts surrounding the civil war, putting to bed most of the myths. The reason for the Confederate Battle Flag will become obvious upon viewing the images: The Confederate Flag was too similar to the Union Stars and Stripes - and soldiers got confused in battle, and mistakes occurred between friend or enemy. So the new flag was instituted for the military, so the sides could tell each other apart. Remember that like the Revolutionary war, this war was fought mostly by Militia, and every Militia had different uniforms, both U.S. and C.S.A. so battles could become quite confusing!

That didn't really answer the question, which was why it is still being used today.

Excellent post ridge runner!

it is still being used today as your article stated, an association with the southern heritage. I still fly my flag on occasion. I was born in louisiana. the flag represents rebelliousness, willingness to take a stand, as well as my southern heritage.
I do not believe in slavery, black slavery is over and done with.
every race and nationality of people have certain symbols of their heritage- I live in a more or less norwegian part of the country, I have seen many flags from norway.
I am a firm believer in the right to fly the confederate flag, it is not harming anyone- it has simply become just one more reason for some people to complain about.
it is time for people to just get over it- it is my right to fly a confederate flag (beneath the american flag of course).
to me it is not a racist statement, merely pride in my heritage- and the flag my forefathers fought behind in the civil war.
as I have stated in a previous thread- our ancestors have all been slaves at one period of time, or another.
should we ban the catholic church?
should we ban the following of christ in america?
remember the spanish inquisition?
some of the most evil torture devices were invented in the name of christ during that period of time.
the salem witch trials?
if you want to find atrocities, I believe that they could be found associated with most of the symbols in the world.
couldn't it be said that the american flag is offensive to those of native american heritage?
the atrocities committed in the indian wars were many- women being gutted, and having their parts displayed on hats and dress jackets. children having their heads smashed against rocks, to save bullets.
the time for this political correctness policy, as far as I am concerned, should be over.
people are becoming far too sensitive, and it seems they are just looking for something to complain about.
so if something has something negative associated with it- it should be banned, well then under those circumstances we should say good bye to the american flag, say good bye to crosses in churches, say good bye to anything roman, and oh yeah- most of our days of the week are norse in origin- we all know how brutal the vikings were ( and they kept slaves as well)- so we should rename all of those days- because they come from a slave owning society.
I do not buy any of it.
the slavery days have been over for quite some time.
there are no longer any living people who were slaves in that era.
yes I agree that slavery is/was wrong.
it is a negative time period of our history.
LETS GET OVER IT!!!
we need to band together as AMERICANS and not attack each other for our personal choices- AMERICANS ONE AND ALL- FOR THE BENIFIT OF AMERICA.
and whatever symbols we choose to associate with our heritage should be everyones right- and not subject to the complaints of easily offended people, and people who do not have the insight to look far enough back in history to see the larger picture.

Unfortunately in this P.C. world (Political Cowardice) symbols tend to push the buttons of the ignorant - something Madison Avenue Advertising Agencies have long known, and exploited to sell more and more goods to the sheeple. I suppose an arguement can be made to remove the Arm and Hammer symbol from baking soda - since it was a Soviet icon representing the Socialist Workers. Perhaps we should also ban Native Americans from using the Swastika as well, since Adolf Hitler stole this ancient symbol and forever tarnished in our minds what it REALLY was. (The oldest form of the cross, called the Resurrection Cross - mentioned in the Holy Bible, found throughout India,
Stamped on church bells in Norway and Sweden, and representing the wings of the Healer - hell it is easier to ban out of , emotional knee-jerk response than to study, and banish from one's self, the scourge of ignorance.
As a Southerner, and descendant of Southerners who arrived in the Virginia colony
long before there was a U.S. or C.S.A. I am proud of my heritage. No one in my family tree ever owned a slave, and several of my ancestors were abolishinists and risked life and limb to aid slaves in their struggle for freedom. Slavery was an evil
forced upon the Colonies by a dictatorial King. Letters were written by our founding fathers condemning this evil, but to no avail. It was perhaps one small offense of many, that eventually led to the Declaration of Independence, and our eventual freedom from a despotic monarch. I do not condemn anyone of English heritage for flying the Union Jack, although it represent centuries of subjugation, exploitation and dominance of practically every less-advanced nation in the world. British, Dutch and Portuguese slave trafficking was the rule of law in it's day, and the rape of South and Central America by Spain, France, etc. is equalled only by the wholesale genocide
against the Native American people, perpetrated by our own country. Should we not fly the Stars and Stripes, because it 'represents' conquest, betreyal and murder,
trading in slaves, invasion of foreign nations, and all the other less-than laudable facets of world history?
Because the Sparticus Party, of Rosa Luxemburg, was both Jewish and Communist, should we not allow the Israeli flag to fly...my God we could find a reason to wrongfully condemn nearly everything that is venerated by someone!
Every day we use money, that (the one dollar bill for example) features the
All-seeing-eye of the Illuminati, and the Masons, with the motto in latin 'NEW WORLD ORDER' if THAT is not enough to offend you...well GO FIGURE!

(see illustration}

Favorite Illuminati Symbol: The All-Seeing Eye. New World Order Currency: The all-seeing-eye on the dollar bill. Below the illuminati pyramid/eye symbol are the words: 'Novus Ordo Seclorum,' which can be translated as: 'A new order of the ages'

The Serpent promised Adam and Eve that their eyes would 'be opened' if they ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The key word in this passage is eyes, which in Hebrew can be translated 'knowledge.' Opened can be translated 'broadened.' What the Serpent promised Adam and Eve was that knowledge would be broadened if they ate of the forbidden fruit.

But the most foreboding aspect of this scripture emerges from the fact that the Hebrew word for 'eyes' is not plural, but singular. What the Serpent actually told Adam and Eve was that their 'eye' would be broadened by knowledge.

The 'eye' that Scripture wants us to consider is not the physical organ of sight, but the eye of the mind or the soul. This singular 'eye' is called the 'third eye' of clairvoyance in the Hindu religion, the eye of Osiris in Egypt, and the All-Seeing Eye in Freemasonry.
(John Daniel, Scarlet and the Beast , Vol. III, pp. 6-7

people who use the flag as a raceist issue, are the type of people who are looking to get something for nothing, cause there to lazy to work, so they live off the goverment and have 50 kids for everybody body else to pay taxes on to support there soorry as-. why do I say this... if you cant look up the history and know why that flag flew, and what it stands for
well I guess you would have to blame it on something and then blame your life and everything that goes wrong on somebody else.
ill fly mine with pride and put anybody who says different in there place

I am in total agreement-ridgerunner.
perhaps the slavery issues that should be addressed today are PROSTITUTION, and DRUG ADDICTION, and the symbols that represent that part of our culture.
what the anti-confederate flag movement is truly talking about is censorship, and that is an evil wheel to start rolling, once it starts nothing is sacred enough to be protected.
I'm with LOWPROFILE, and I will continue to fly my flag.

It's still flown today, because many people in the south would prefer to be independent from Washington. Don't make the mistake of confusing a government with the land it governs. It's possible to love our land, our people, our culture, etc., and yet also think that independence from the US federal government would be a good thing.

The Confederate flag is not about slavery, it's about a desire for independence from Washington.

Born in raised in Florida, I myself find the confederate flag to be a symbol of racism.

that being said, each of you has failed to answer the question of WHY it is still flown today, and instead have talked about how it isnt racist.

The Civil War was absolutely about slavery. The fact is, not only was the US depending on the South's cotton crop, so was the rest of the world. Something like three fifths of the entire world supply of cotton at that time was produced in the South, and the profit margin was as high as it was because of slave labor. The South had a good thing going, and they were concerned that if slavery was abolished or contained, it would threaten Southern livelihood and force the Southern states to rely on the North economically. They would rather go to war than let this happen.

I don't have a problem with the Confederate flag being flown as a symbol of Confederate history and heritage; we can't deny that this was a part of US history, and it does represent much more than the Civil War. However, I do see why many people equate it with racism since it was the banner of a short lived nation that did condone and depend on slavery.

Although slavery was a major factor in the formation of the Confederacy, and was ultimately the reason for tensions between North and South, the secession and the war were ultimately about state's rights vs. federal rights. Keep in mind that slavery was not illegal at the time the Confederacy seceded, nor was there an imminent threat of that happening. The emancipation proclamation was issued AFTER the war had begun.

I agree with toadaly and a few others...I Hope people will see beyond the racist thing and get a life. As said before it's not about slavery...it's about freedom!!

what about the black confederate soldiers who bravely fought in the civil war. Were they fighting for slavery ,freedom,or their love of the SOUTH. The relatives of these BLACK CONFEDERATES still fly that same BATTLE FLAG. The north wanted control of the southern states .that is what the war was about, not slavery. The south was rich and beautiful before the greed of power of the north destoryed it. READ the real history.

The southerna were basically like spoiled children. They couldn't deal with change or the law. The thing that pushed them over the edge was Licoln, but he won fair and square so why did that give them the right to leave the Union? I have to agree with Sly about one thing though. The south was very beautiful before we practiced total war against it.

I think people fly the confederate flag for two reason. The first one is to show rebellious spirit and a desire to be independpent. The second is because it is kind of becoming a symbol for free speech.

Before you place Mr. Lincoln upon too high of a pedestal, you should consider the speech he made to a group of industrialists, shortly after his famous Emancipation Proclamation: 'Nothing I have said with respect to the freeing of slaves should
be construed to infer that I believe the negro to be the equal of the
white man.
The two races are dissimilar in mein and deportment, and shall never
live together in peace. Should it come to one or the other, as a white
man, I have no hesitation in choosing my race over theirs.'
Ahh. but with time..we forget that which is inconvenient, and place upon pedestals
those individuals who would merit a much lesser measure of esteem in their own times. Learn about Washington, Jackson, Lincoln et al...they were no more or less than the politicians of today. In time the world may forget Bill Clinton's treason, and sexual escapades..and one day 'Slick Willie' may even appear upon our Currency

' He who does not learn the lessons of history is destined to repeat them'
-Karl Marx-

Could you show me a link or website to that speech? I never really meant to place Lincoln on a pedastal. I think he was one of the worst presidents we've ever had. He actually took away more freedoms then any other president. I was just saying that Lincoln won fair and square and the south couldn't deal with law. I think what made Jefferson and Washington so great was that they were revolutionaries and actually quite brillant.

zmarsh, note that there is nothing in the Constitution to keep a state from exiting the union - not then, and not today either. The southern states believed they had a right to secede, and Lincoln basically acknowledged that by waiting for them to fire the first shot.

If they had not stupidly fired at Ft. Sumner, the Confederacy might still exist today.

ok.. Think of it this way, Hunny.. It's not HATE, it's heritage, if you dont like it, then dont fly it.. bottom line.. obvisually you've never been to the south because some BLACK PEOPLE even wear the CONFEDERATE FLAG!

The Emancipation Proclamation was proclaimed three years into the war. The slaveholding states not seceeding were not a part of emancipation. As ridgerunner has already said the tariffs on English goods unfairly impacted southern agrarians who shipped their raw materials to England as well as the North and who would ultimately suffer from a smaller market which was advantagious to the northern industrialists. The Northern industrialists sought to claim cheap raw materials, cheap labor, and to halter English competition of finished goods. The seceeding states regarded Northern acts as Federalism and anathema to Southern belief in Anti-federalism. The freeing of the slaves only served to capture wage slaves for the Industrial sweatshops. So to many southerners the rebel flag is a warning to a overreaching federal government. And in the days of Patriot Acts and Military Commission Acts its symbolism is warranted, and perhaps wanted.

I know this answer will not suit the short sighted here who believe Honest Abe should be tutoring Christ on how to lead a good life. If you are one of those short bus riders, this insincere answer may satiate: The Rebel Flag sux, southern people suk, we apologize for not laying down in the face of tyranny, northerners freed the slaves because they loved them with all their hearts, please kill us, we are not fit to live.

I'd fly it, proud too. Johnny Rebel said it right:

'Lately you're yelling 'bout our rebel flag
Wantin' us to take it down
It represents our history and southern pride
And rebel blood on the ground'

tell you what, you keep asking for stuff and it's pissing me off. Why don't you just let people express their pride in the way they want?

the 'rebel' flag is still used as a reminder to people of the south's 'pride'. living in the south, I have found that it is used most often in areas where it will be a constant reminder to african americans. most of the people that I have seen displaying the 'rebel' flag are rednecks.the flag offends, it should not be a source of pride.