Did jesus exist?

I there any real, actual proof of Jesus's existance? ( Please don't say the bible ).

The Jesus' foot non-controversy above reminds me of the following story (presumably apocryphal):

In a traditional English church, a young vicar preached a very modern sermon (I don't know what he did, used PowerPoint or something).
Following the service, a disgusted old lady complained to this vicar, concluding: 'Jesus must be turning in His grave!'

Surely can't be true.

And otherwise, once again I think that the disinterested observer will notice that people who choose not to believe in Jesus will interpret everything as evidence against his existence/divinity, and those who believe we know Him will see the same material as evidence of His existence. Neither will 'win' this conversation and change the minds of the others, because our starting positions overwhelmingly influence our interpretation of the facts.

That's why, despite the fact that I can and have given a discussion of the facts and the evidence, when it comes down to it I totally agree with Silverwing's much simpler post.

flossheal: "And otherwise, once again I think that the disinterested observer will notice that people who choose not to believe in Jesus will interpret everything as evidence against his existence/divinity, and those who believe we know Him will see the same material as evidence of His existence. Neither will 'win' this conversation and change the minds of the others, because our starting positions overwhelmingly influence our interpretation of the facts."

As I have already said, belief to me is not a choice.

The lack of evidence is not the same thing as evidence against his existence. I have never said there is proof that he never existed. But it is a fact there is absolutely no proof the man named jesus described in the NT ever existed. Doesn't mean he didn't.

So I am not sure what you are talking about when you say believers will use the same material as evidence of his existence.

I understand that you aren't categorially denying the existence of the man Jesus, jimahl. I think that's very wise of you (well, I would, but I also think it shows an understanding of the academic arguments too). The 'same material' we use as evidence is: The Gospels.

Yes, I do not deny that jesus might have existed. I think the story has to be based on someone, just as most folklore is rooted in real persons or events. I don't think it sprung up out of thin air. And as I said, the fact that there is no other corroborating evidence is not that unusual since such a man would not have been deemed significant at the time.

But you have to admit, the gospels are not real historical records. They are heresay at best. But that does not constitute evidence against their accuracy. But there is no other independent evidence to support it, and without that, it can't be considered reliable, in my opinion.

I think that this topic can never have a final answer!

as niave as it all sounds, we just have to believe!! thats the saddest thing about us humans, we just dont have faith anymore!!! its so sad!!

I never used to be a very religeous person, and I have asked myself, the priest, my granny and academics this question millions of times, but it was unfortunately only until I had a very tragic event happen in my life, and after seeing the faith my family had in the Lord to carry on and believe that my mom was with him, I truly felt peace!!!
the only way we can all just have peace is to forgive and have FAITH!!

what are we all so desperatley searching for anyhow...???!!!

YES! DID you REALLY THINK that HE DIDNT

Jesus does exist. everytime soemthing good happens-everytime you expirence a miracle thats GOD thats jesus right beside you, helping you through everyday life. God is sooo good and none of us would have the opportuinty to live with god for eternaty if it wasnt for jesus coming and dying on the cross for eacha and every one of us. Everytime you do something bad and you feel guilty thats jesus pointing you in the right direction. Jesus loves you and thats all you need to know! FAITH is whats its all about. People that beieve in evolution just as much as we need faith to believe in god. Beieving in something SOMEONE makes life so much more living for! Life is so much easier! BELIEV come into the water drink god right in!!

Yes but he wasn't as holy as some would think. He went out of his way & coaused riots to get people's attention. He could of easily avoided conflicts but went out of his way to confront people. He didn't die on the cross either & was more than likely married to Mary Magdalen. He was Jew & he was considered a holy man, back then in Jewish religion you had to be married to be considered a holy man. He was crucified for only 6 hours; at the very least the Romans would crucify a person for 2 days then take you down, that is if they felt like it. The stab in the side- the romans missed the vital organs, they did that to cause more discomfort & affliction, not to kill. There've been reports of people surviving after 2-3 days crucified, I don't see why it would be so hard to believe Jesus survived. As for the resurrection & such, I don't see ho he would be resurrected if he were never dead. All they found was a white cloth, no body, nothing but a white cloth. There's a theory stating that there was a plan to save Christ. They took him to a borrowed tomb & treated his wounds. Rosemary & rue was taken to his grave, they have extreme healing properties & are still used in modern medicine. Rosemary & rue were anointed to his body, then his body was covered with the white cloth to keep out insects & such, & that would also explain how the image of Christ got on the shroud. Rosemary will make that type of imprint, 48 hours is more than enough time. Christ was put in a coma state when he was taken off the cross. Certain people probably helped take him out of the state & moved him before his tomb was discovered empty.