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Which church? which god?
A gentleman named Thomas Huxley came up with the idea that ultimate truths (such as the literal existance of God) are unknowable/unprovable because of our own limitations. He called this idea agnosticism.
Your god is more like Eastern religions. In Judeo/Christian/Islam man is divorced from God because of sin and must seek God outside one's self. In Eastern religions god is in everyone and we must awaken to the god within.
I don't believe in a literal god. I sometimes view god as a metaphor. From my viewpoint Eastern religions are somewhat more attractive to me since the metaphor of and internal god works better than an external one.
Greetings fellow user,
You may be having this problem for the folowing reasons, also I hope you enjoy my help, and rate my advice, Thank you very much, and enjoy the help below!
-Agnosticism (from the Greek a, meaning 'without' and gnosis, 'knowledge', translating to unknowable) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding metaphysics, afterlife or the existence of God, god(s), or deities—is unknown or (possibly) inherently unknowable.
Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.
Demographic research services[1] normally list agnostics alongside categories such as atheist and non-religious, although this is misleading, since religious people can be agnostic (indicating a lack of absolute certainty, therefore treating their religion as a faith).
Contents [hide]
1 History of the term
2 Qualifying agnosticism
3 Philosophical opinions
3.1 Thomas Henry Huxley
3.2 Robert G. Ingersoll
3.3 Bertrand Russell
4 Notes
5 References
6 See also
7 External links
[edit] History of the term
'Agnostic' was introduced by Thomas Henry Huxley in 1869 to describe his philosophy. The term agnostic is also used to describe those who do not absolutely commit themselves about the existence of deities as well as about other matters of religion.
Early Christian church leaders used the Greek word gnosis (knowledge) to describe 'spiritual knowledge'. Agnosticism is not to be confused with religious views opposing the doctrine of gnosis and Gnosticism— these are religious concepts that are not generally related to agnosticism.
[edit] Qualifying agnosticism
Critics of the term 'agnostic' claim that there is nothing distinctive in being agnostic because even many theists do not claim to know with certainty that a god exists—only that they believe it to be true. Under this asserted distinction between the words 'belief' and 'knowledge,' agnosticism has recently started suffering from terminological ambiguity. While critics maintain the distinction is not contrived; others reject the distinction as trifling. By contrast, compare:
'I believe God(s) exist(s)' means that 'I know God(s) exist(s)'.
'I believe God(s) exist(s)' can still mean 'I don't know if God(s) exist(s)'.
If this distinction is accepted, the term agnostic becomes orthogonal to theism without further qualifiers, and many qualifiers become contradictory unless the distinction is accepted. If this distinction is ultimately accepted by the larger public, the group formerly described by the term will again find themselves without a label, because the qualifiers provided would be inappropriate for their philosophy.
Recently suggested variations include:
Strong agnosticism (also called hard agnosticism, closed agnosticism, strict agnosticism, absolute agnosticism)—the view that the question of the existence or nonexistence of god(s) are unknowable by nature or that human beings are ill-equipped to judge the evidence.
Weak agnosticism (also called soft agnosticism, open agnosticism, empirical agnosticism, temporal agnosticism)—the view that the existence or nonexistence of God(s) is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if more evidence is available.
Apathetic agnosticism—the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of God(s), but since any God(s) that may exist appear unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic anyway.
Non-practicing agnosticism—the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of God(s), and that it's meaningless to care.
Ignosticism—the view that the concept of God(s) as a being is meaningless because it has no verifiable consequences, therefore it cannot be usefully discussed as having existence or nonexistence.
Model agnosticism—the view that philosophical and metaphysical questions are not ultimately verifiable but that a model of malleable assumption should be built upon rational thought. This branch of agnosticism does not focus on a deity's existence.
Agnostic theism (also called religious agnosticism)—the view of those who do not claim to know existence of God(s), but still believe in such an existence. (See Knowledge vs. Beliefs)
Agnostic spiritualism—the view that there may or may not be a God(s), while maintaining a general personal belief in a spiritual aspect of reality, particularly without distinct religious basis, or adherence to any established doctrine or dogma.
Relative agnosticism—similar to Agnostic spiritualism, but with the added view that if it was empirically proven that God(s) do or do not exist, it would not affect the beliefs of the Relative Agnostic.
Agnostic atheism—the view of those who do not know of the existence or nonexistence of god(s), and do not believe in god(s).[2]
[edit] Philosophical opinions
Among the most famous agnostics (in the original sense) have been Thomas Henry Huxley, Robert G. Ingersoll and Bertrand Russell.
[edit] Thomas Henry Huxley
Agnostic views are as old as philosophical skepticism, but the terms agnostic and agnosticism were created by Huxley to sum up his thoughts on contemporary developments of metaphysics about the 'unconditioned' (Hamilton) and the 'unknowable' (Herbert Spencer). It is important, therefore, to discover Huxley's own views on the matter. Though Huxley began to use the term 'agnostic' in 1869, his opinions had taken shape some time before that date. In a letter of September 23, 1860, to Charles Kingsley, Huxley discussed his views extensively:
I neither affirm nor deny the immortality of man. I see no reason for believing it, but, on the other hand, I have no means of disproving it. I have no a priori objections to the doctrine. No man who has to deal daily and hourly with nature can trouble himself about a priori difficulties. Give me such evidence as would justify me in believing in anything else, and I will believe that. Why should I not? It is not half so wonderful as the conservation of force or the indestructibility of matter. . . .
It is no use to talk to me of analogies and probabilities. I know what I mean when I say I believe in the law of the inverse squares, and I will not rest my life and my hopes upon weaker convictions. . . .
That my personality is the surest thing I know may be true. But the attempt to conceive what it is leads me into mere verbal subtleties. I have champed up all that chaff about the ego and the non-ego, noumena and phenomena, and all the rest of it, too often not to know that in attempting even to think of these questions, the human intellect flounders at once out of its depth.
And again, to the same correspondent, May 6, 1863:
I have never had the least sympathy with the a priori reasons against orthodoxy, and I have by nature and disposition the greatest possible antipathy to all the atheistic and infidel school. Nevertheless I know that I am, in spite of myself, exactly what the Christian would call, and, so far as I can see, is justified in calling, atheist and infidel. I cannot see one shadow or tittle of evidence that the great unknown underlying the phenomenon of the universe stands to us in the relation of a Father [who] loves us and cares for us as Christianity asserts. So with regard to the other great Christian dogmas, immortality of soul and future state of rewards and punishments, what possible objection can I—who am compelled perforce to believe in the immortality of what we call Matter and Force, and in a very unmistakable present state of rewards and punishments for our deeds—have to these doctrines? Give me a scintilla of evidence, and I am ready to jump at them.
Of the origin of the name agnostic to describe this attitude, Huxley gave the following account:[3]
When I reached intellectual maturity and began to ask myself whether I was an atheist, a theist, or a pantheist; a materialist or an idealist; Christian or a freethinker; I found that the more I learned and reflected, the less ready was the answer; until, at last, I came to the conclusion that I had neither art nor part with any of these denominations, except the last. The one thing in which most of these good people were agreed was the one thing in which I differed from them. They were quite sure they had attained a certain 'gnosis,'–had, more or less successfully, solved the problem of existence; while I was quite sure I had not, and had a pretty strong conviction that the problem was insoluble.
So I took thought, and invented what I conceived to be the appropriate title of 'agnostic.' It came into my head as suggestively antithetic to the 'gnostic' of Church history, who professed to know so much about the very things of which I was ignorant. To my great satisfaction the term took.
Huxley's agnosticism is believed to be a natural consequence of the intellectual and philosophical conditions of the 1860s, when clerical intolerance was trying to suppress scientific discoveries which appeared to clash with a literal reading of the Book of Genesis and other established Jewish and Christian doctrines. Agnosticism should not, however, be confused with natural theology, deism, pantheism, or other science positive forms of theism.
By way of clarification, Huxley states, 'In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable' (Huxley, Agnosticism, 1889). While A. W. Momerie has noted that this is nothing but a definition of honesty, Huxley's usual definition goes beyond mere honesty to insist that these metaphysical issues are fundamentally unknowable.
[edit] Robert G. Ingersoll
An Illinois lawyer and politician who evolved into a well-known and sought-after orator in 19th century America, and who has been referred to as the 'Great Agnostic.'
In an 1896 lecture titled Why I Am An Agnostic, Ingersoll related what led him to believe in agnosticism and articulated that belief with:
Is there a supernatural power—an arbitrary mind—an enthroned God—a supreme will that sways the tides and currents of the world—to which all causes bow? I do not deny. I do not know—but I do not believe. I believe that the natural is supreme—that from the infinite chain no link can be lost or broken—that there is no supernatural power that can answer prayer—no power that worship can persuade or change—no power that cares for man.
I believe that with infinite arms Nature embraces the all—that there is no interference—no chance—that behind every event are the necessary and countless causes, and that beyond every event will be and must be the necessary and countless effects.
Is there a God? I do not know. Is man immortal? I do not know. One thing I do know, and that is, that neither hope, nor fear, belief, nor denial, can change the fact. It is as it is, and it will be as it must be.
In the conclusion of the speech he simply sums up the agnostic belief as:
We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know.
[edit] Bertrand Russell
Bertrand Russell's pamphlet, Why I Am Not a Christian based on a speech delivered in 1927 and later included in a book of the same title, is considered a classic statement of agnosticism. The essay briefly lays out Russell’s objections to some of the arguments for the existence of God before discussing his moral objections to Christian teachings. He then calls upon his readers to 'stand on their own two feet and look fair and square at the world,' with a 'fearless attitude and a free intelligence.'
In 1939, Russell gave a lecture on The existence and nature of God, in which he characterized himself as an agnostic. He said:
The existence and nature of God is a subject of which I can discuss only half. If one arrives at a negative conclusion concerning the first part of the question, the second part of the question does not arise; and my position, as you may have gathered, is a negative one on this matter.[4]
However, later in the same lecture, discussing modern non-anthropomorphic concepts of God, Russell states:
That sort of God is, I think, not one that can actually be disproved, as I think the omnipotent and benevolent creator can.[5]
In Russell's 1947 pamphlet, Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic? (subtitled A Plea For Tolerance In The Face Of New Dogmas), he ruminates on the problem of what to call himself:
As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God.
On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods.
In his 1953 essay, What Is An Agnostic? Russell states:
An agnostic thinks it impossible to know the truth in matters such as God and the future life with which Christianity and other religions are concerned. Or, if not impossible, at least impossible at the present time.
However, later in the essay, Russell says:
I think that if I heard a voice from the sky predicting all that was going to happen to me during the next twenty-four hours, including events that would have seemed highly improbable, and if all these events then produced to happen, I might perhaps be convinced at least of the existence of some superhuman intelligence.
Note that he didn't say 'supreme' or 'supernatural' intelligence, as these terms are metaphysically loaded.
[edit] Notes
^ http://adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html#Nonreligious
^ Cline, Austin. Atheism vs. Agnosticism: What's the Difference? Are they Alternatives to Each Other?. Retrieved on 2006-09-24.
^ Huxley, Thomas. Collected Essays, 237-239. ISBN 1-85506-922-9.
^ Russell, Bertrand. Collected Papers, Vol 10, 255.
^ Collected Papers, Vol. 10, p.258
[edit] References
Man's Place In Nature, Thomas Huxley, ISBN 0-375-75847-X
Why I Am Not a Christian, Bertrand Russell, ISBN 0-671-20323-1
Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion, David Hume, ISBN 0-14-044536-6
Language, Truth, and Logic, A.J. Ayer, ISBN 0-486-20010-8
Atheism, the Case Against God, George H. Smith, ISBN 0-87975-124-X
CIA estimate of religious affiliation by country uses 'other', 'none', or 'unspecified' as descriptive terms
[edit] See also
Look up Agnosticism in
Wiktionary, the free dictionary.Wikiquote has a collection of quotations related to:
AgnosticismWikisource has an original article from the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica about:
AgnosticismAtheism
Nihilism
Existentialism
God
Rationalist movement
Religion
Religiosity
Secularism
Skepticism
Ietsism
Agnostic theism
Russell's teapot
Theism
Thomas Henry Huxley and agnosticism
List of agnostics
[edit] External links
Agnostic Discussion Forums: Gathering place for agnostics to share views.
What Is An Agnostic? by Bertrand Russell, [1953].
Why I am Not a Christian by Bertrand Russell (March 6, 1927).
Why I Am An Agnostic by Robert G. Ingersoll, [1896].
Dictionary of the History of Ideas: Agnosticism
The Internet Infidels Discussion Forums(Worldwide)
The Secular Web
Some reflections and quotes about agnosticism
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry
Agnosticism - from ReligiousTolerance.org
Agnostic Universe
What do Agnostics Believe? - A Jewish perspective
-Hope my advice help you, Don't forget to rate =)
-Phil2611
There is love. So, there is God.
Hey, God is awesome! Anyway, proof that God exists is everywhere. God is the only one who can answer my prayers and can work miracles in many lives. He is highly promoted by the Bible, but there is proof everywhere if you just look for it. For example, there was a guy at 7/11 and he just dropped dead. He was young and healthy, but police found that he had rejected God and religion of any type for his whole life. God simply said' Thar's enough.' That sounds harsh, but don't mess with the angry all-powerful God!!
Before I start, You CAN'T prove GOD!
You are supposed to trust him and just believe he's there. It's easier to do when you are with a group of people who love GOD too!
Trust me it's not easy believing in something thats not there, I've been there, but then I started praying, asking for guidance, yah know stuff you can't talk about with other people. The thing is you just have to KNOW GODS there, it's confusing and on earth we may never understand, but are we really supposed to have all the answers??
I have no 'doudts' about 'GOD',, you can 'READ' your Bible or do you 'STUDY WHAT YOU ARE READING?' In GOD'S WORD; HE tells you to 'fisrt : 'you are wanting 'PROOF' GOD IS GOD ; THE ONE TRUE GOD! #2. Proof!! my ? 2 you is: are you now ;'at this moment 'breathing',,can you 'THINK?' can yiu 'SEE< TOUCH< HEAR>BUT IS IT 'WORLDLY'>>OR IS IT 'GODLY WISDOM' GODLY WISDOM IS ,,'UNDERSTANDING HOW TO USE YOUR 'KNOWLEDGE' IN THE WAY OF 'RIGHTOUSNESS'..'YOU WILL ALWAYS ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU NEED TO DO ;'FOR YOU ARE USING YOUR KNOWLEDGEWITH UNDERSTANDING THE WORK ;NEED;SKILL; IN THE 'WISDOM GOD SO BLESSED YOU WITH..KNOWING HOW TO USE 'WHAT YOU 'KNOW' AND UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE DOING /USING YOUR KNOWLEDGE 'CORRECTLY'= GODLY WISDOM..THE WORLD IS FILLED WITH 'GREAT KNOWLEDGE',,PEOPLE RUNNING TO AND FRO AND GETTING NO WHERE!! 'GODLY WISDOM', YOU WILL FEEL IN YOUR 'HEART' 'THIS IS THE 'RIGHT WAY;RIGHT DECISION; AND YOU WILL FIND;;'YOU WILL NOT END UP IN 'A MESS' TO BREAK IT DOWN;;'YOU WILL STOP AND GIVE THE SITUATION 'PRAYFUL THOUGTH' BEFORE YOU START TO DO ANYTHING!!' =GODLY WISDOM!! YOU THE UNDERSTANDING OF 'WHAT YOU 'KNOW'=KNOWLEDGE AND IF IT THE 'RIGHT THING /OR WAY TO DO OR GO!! I HAD OPEN HEART SURGERY AND 'NOT ONE TIME DID I CRY,YELL OUT,AS THEY WERE PUTTING TWO{3} VERY LONG 'NEEDLES/SHUTS INTO THE JUGLER VEIN IN EACH SIDE OF MY NECK..'THE LEFT ONE WENT DOWN INTO MY AORTA.' THEY TOLD ME ;THE PAIN WOULD BE VERY SEVERE;THAT I COULD CRY,YELL ,SCREAM, THEY WERE USE TO THAT..I ASSURE THEM ;'THERE WOULD BE 'NONE OF THAT!'. SHOCKED THE '2' DOCTORS AND '3' NURSES; AND ASKED ;'HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?' I JUST LOOKED AT THEM ;'IN A 'PEACE THAT I KNEW WHO WAS GIVING IT TO ME';;AND I ASKED ,'DO YOU KNOW THE 23RD PSALM? AND HERE ARE 'TWO DOCTORS BEGAN TO QUOTE IT!!' I ASKED,'NOW WHAT DID YOU 'JUST ' TELL ME? AND THEY SAID THE FIRST 2 VERSES AND I STOPPED THEM AND I ASKED,'WHO IS THE SHEPHERD? {all I could see were their eyes} AND FOR AFEW SECONDS THEY HAD TO 'THINK' AND THEY SAID ,'THE LORD';;I ASKED ;'WHO IS THE LORD;'THE GOOD SHEPHERD'? AND THEY SAID,'JESUS'..I TOLD THEM THAT LONG AGO I WAS TO HAVE A MEDICAL TEST DONE AND HEARD IT WAS VERY PAINFUL AND I WAS 'SCARED TO DEATH'..AS MY HUSBAND WAS DRIVING TO THE HOSPITAL,,I PICKED UP THE SMALL RED NEW TESTAMENT I ALWAYS KEPT{stillis in my car right now} AND IT JUST 'OPEN UP TO THE 23rd PSALM AND I BEGAN TO READ TI AND THEN I STARTED CRYING AND LAUGHING ; MY HUSBAND ASKED:'WHAT IN THE WORLD IS WRONG?' AND I TOLD HIM WHAT 'the holy spirit' HAD JUST REVELED TO ME::JESUS IS MY SHEPHERD AND I AM HIS LAMB AND THE'GREEN PASTURES ARE HIS 'ARMS ' FOR HE IS 'HOLDING ME' TO 'REST' AND THE 'STILL WATERS' ARE THE 'WORDS OF GOD' AND AS I 'REST IN 'HIS LOVING STRONG ARMS'SCRIPTURES ARE FLOWING INTO MY MIND/=SOUL AND THEN I ASKED THE '2' DOCTORS ;'WHAT DOES THE NEXT VERSE SAY?' AND THEY BOTH SAID;'HE RESTORETH MY SOUL' I TOLD THEM; I AM LAYING IN MY SHEPHERD'S ARMS AND I WILL LET 'THE HOLY SPIRIT'FLOW THRU MY SOUL', SCRIPTURES TO GIVE ME STRENGTH' FOR I HAVE A PATH I MUST WALK;'THE PATH OF 'RIGHTEOUSNESS' FOR MY SHEHERD='JESUS' NAME SAKE;;AND THE 'VALLEY';;OH YES''THERE IS A 'shadow'< BUT ONLY A 'shadow': FOR MY 'SHEPHERD JESUS' IS WITH ME AND CARRYING ME AND THERE IS ONLY A 'shadow' BECAUSE 'THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD' IS WITH ME ,CARRYING ME AND WHEN YOU ARE IN 'HIM'{ABIDETH};THOUGH IT MAYBE DARKNESS ALL AROUND YOU; 'JESUS IS RIGHT WITH ME AND I AM ALWAYS IN 'HIS GLORIOUS LIGHT' FOR WITH 'JESUS' ,'NO DARKNESS CAN COME NEAR!! 'HE' DOES NOT EVEN CAST A 'SHADOW' SO, THE DOCTORS AND NURSES WERE 'AMAZED AND 'SORT OF SHAKEN' AND TOLD ME ;'YOU SURE HAVE GIVEN US SOMETHING TO ALWAYS REMEMBER ABOUT PSALM 23!! AND THE NURSES WERE CRYING..YOU SEE, 'MY MAKING IT THROUGH THE SURGERY WAS 'SLIM'. 6 PINTS OF BLOOD AND I WAS OUT FROM TUESDAY NIGHT UNTIL FRIDAY @12:30PM,,THEY WOKE ME UP..COMPLETLY 'ALERT' AND IN AFEW HOURS WAS MOVING AND EXCERIZING MY ARMS AND LEGS ,AND THEY WERE 'AMAZED FOR 'IHAD 'NO PAIN'..HUGE ICCU @ UTMC!! NEXT MORNING MY SURGEON CAME IN WHILE I WAS EXERIZING AND HE WAS 'SHOCKED'HE TOLD ME OF ALL THE SURGERIES HE HAD DONE; 'NEVER HAD HE EVER SEEN THE PATIENT DOING AS EXCELLENT AS I WAS!! AND I TOLD HIM 'HOW I WAS DOING ALL THAT I WAS'. AND I ASKED ;'CAN I GET UP AND WALK',,I NEED TO WALK!! AND TWO NURSES WERE WITH HIM AND ASKED HIM;'HAVE YOU EVER KNOWN US TO HAVE A PATIENT LIKE HER?? AND HE SAID I NEEDED TO BE PUT IN GUINESS BOOK OF WORLD RECORDS..I WALKED AND PRAYED AND 'SUNG SONGS OF 'PRAISE' TO 'MY HEAVENLY FATHER FOR HIS GREAT LOVE AND FOR LOVING ME SO;THAT HE SENT HIS 'PRECIOUS SON,'LAMB' TO DIE FOR ME, 'HIS STRIPES ACROSS HIS PRECIOS BACK WERE FOR MY HEALING AND THAT WAS WHY I HAD 'NO PAIN'..'JESUS TOOK THE 'PAIN FOR OUR 'PHYSICAL LIFE AND PORED 'HIS BLOOD AND WAS NAILED TO A CROSS' TO PAY MY 'SIN DEBT' ONLY 'HIS BLOOD WAS PURE;'WITHOUT SIN;BLEMISH' ,,'HOLY BLOOD'..HOW MANY TIMES DO I GO TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT OLD CROSS?? ALL THROUGH THE DAY AND NIGHT;;I COULD TELL YOU MRE THINGS THAT 'I HAVE HAD HAPPEN IN MY LIFE THAT ARE OF 'THE ALMIGHTY LIVING GOD THE FATHER;'GOD THE SON , JESUS CHRIST,REDEEMER,SAVIOUR,KING OF KINGS,'YET 'HE' LAID ASIDE ALL OF 'HIS GLORY' AND CAME TO THIS EARTH, TO GIVE HIS LIFE FOR ME AND YOU',,IF satan HAD KNOWN OF ONE THING,he WOULD HAVE NEVER HAD THE THOUSANDS SCREAMING ; 'CRUCIFY HIM',,satan DID NOT KNOW 'OF THE POWER OF THE HOLY BLOOD THAT WOULD WASH AWAY OUR SINS,HEAL US. PROTECT,PROVIDE MAKE US ANEW IN HIM..''THE 'BLOOD IS LIFE' IF YOU WAANT TO KNOW IF I CAN PROVE GOD?? IF YOU KNEW MY LIFE;'WHAT I HAVE HAD TO COME THROUGH AND NOW I AM ALMOST 65,,'THE TIMES 'HE' HAS SAVED ME FROM DANGER, FILLED AN EMPTY STOMACH WITH WATER AND CRACKERS AS IF I HAD JUST ATE A 'THICK STEAK, WITH ALL THAT GOES WITH A MEAL AND ALL THE EXTRAS YOU CAN GET..OF NIGHTS I HAVE HAD TO CALL 911 FOR AN AMBULANCE TO TAKE ME TO THE HOSPITAL AND HAVING NO WAY HOME,,WALK OUT IN A TERRIBLE STORM AND PRAYING AND SINGING, WALK HOME AT 1:00AM ;2 POLICE CARS PASSED ME AND SEEN THE PLASTIC HOSPITAL BAG AND 'GO ON BY',,BUT MY 'FATHER GOD' HAD CALMED STORMS; AND 'HE' HAD AN ANGEL TO COME,,'CITY STREET CLEANER MAN ' AND HE KEPT CIRCLING THREE BLOCKS WATCHING OUT FOR MY SAFETY AND WHEN I WAS GOING IN FRONT OF OUR COURT HOUSE;I POINTED TO A 16 STORY FEDERAL HOUSING BLDG.. AND HE WAVED AND GOT OUT OF HIS TRUCK AND HOOKED UP THE HOSE TO A 'FIRE PLUG 'AND FILLED IT TO WASH AWAY THE STORM'S DEBRI..I NOW LIVED IN ANOTHER APT. AND MUCH FURTHER FROM THE HOSPITAL,,CRAMPING DOUBLE IN PAIN AND PASSING BLOOD,,I KNEW I HAD TO GET TO THE ER AND IT WAS 'STORMING SO HARD YOU COULD NOT SEE THE LIES ON THE EXPRESS WAY,,PEOPLE HAD PULLED OVER TO THE SIDE BUT I PRAYED AND ASK 'JESUS TO DRIVE THE CAR FOR I COULD NOT SEE THE ROAD AND I STARTED SIGING PRAIES TO HIM AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THER WAS THE 'ENTERANCE TO THE ER'..HAD A KIDNEY STONE,,SO I PRAYED THERE IN THE HOSPITAL,, AND THEY DID A TEST AND 'NO BLOOD',,WAS THERE WHEN I WENT IN..DID A CAT SCAN ;SEEN IT;;PUT ME ON A FAST DRIP I've.. FOR ABOUT THREE HOURS AND I PRAYED,,DOCTOR CAME IN AND TOLD ME AND WANTED TO DO ANOTHER TEST..'CLEAR' NO BLOOD! SO, SIR, I WILL ASK YOU; 'CAN YOU PROVE TO ME THAT THE 'LORD GOD' AND 'THE POWER OF HIS SHED BLOOD' AND THE PRECIOUS HOLY SPIRIT OF MY FATHER, THE POWER OF GON,THE WORDS WERE SPOKEN AND GOR SAID ,'LET THERE BE LIGHT, AND THE DARKNESS WAS SEPARATED AND THERE WAS 'LIGHT' AND GOD SAW ;'THAT IT WAS GOOD' THOSE WORDS BECAME 'FLESH'; STUDY FIRST CHAPTER OF THE BOOK OF JOHN;;ONLY STUDY AFEW SCRITURES AT A TIME..YOU ARE 'BATTLING' AGAINST THE demons of satan<< just to start confusion> BUT GOD IS THE AUTHOR OF 'CONFUSION', DEBATE OR HASH SPOKEN OR WRITTEN WORDS OR DEEDS!! REMEMBER: 'UNDERSTANDING+KNOWLEDGE=WISDOM!! CHOOSE 'GODLY WISDOM,KNOWLEDGE,AND UNDERSTANDING AND YOU WILL STAY ON THE STRAIGHT AND 'NARROW' PATH OF RIGHTEOUSNESS;BECAUSE JESUS IS WALKING WITH YOU, 'HE WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU!! WE ARE THE ONES WHO WALK AWAY FROM HIM..WE CHOOSE;OUR CHOICE;YOUR CHOICE!!
What kind of proof do you need? Specifically, what type of proof would it take for you to say, 'OK -- I guess God DOES exist!'? The proof has to be compatible with the subject matter. I can't scientifically prove to you that my sandwich was delicious or that my mom loves me (although it was and she does). What type of proof are you looking for?
God exists because there's no other explanation on who created the universe or who decided that the big bang should happen.
umm.. God is Sexy. What else do you want. Say prayers (reasonable ones) and you will find god in everything good you see. My sandwich also tastes yummy.
simply, you can't prove god exists, you can't prove god does not exist.
'coolcatcarly', to be blunt, why would I want to believe in a 'god' who kills people just because they don't follow a religion. didn't this 'god' allow free choice in humans? isn't ot slightly hypocritical then that he would kill somone for allowing this use of free choice?
'markanderson', there are so many other explanations for how the universe was created, how people came into existence, evolution, and all that jazz.
religion is man made
and im a cynical cow
I do not believe God can be proven to exist, except by Descartes reasoning: I know that I exist, since I must exist to be able to think. (That's the origin of 'I think, therefore I am.')
If I exist, why? Ultimately, there must be a reason that creation exists. That implies a creator.
Now, if the creator and creation exist, then history seems consistent, unless God is a liar (and I for sure don't want to go there..). Next, use C.S. Lewis's argument: if a caring, creative God did exist, how would he act? The Bible is just the right sort of history to tell the story of such a God. And, if the Bible is true, the Catholic Church, which reaches back to that history, is also true. And, then, all the rest follows.
But note: this 'proof' relies at various points on a faith response. At some point, you must postulate God (or the logical equivalent) or deny God, and build your life on the result. Can you prove God? I don't think it is easy or quick. But it's a lot harder to consistently deny God.
You can't prove a negative, I.e. that God doesn't exist and God cannot be put to scientific test. If he could he wouldn't be God would he? But here's a better question for all of you skeptics to ponder; 'Why is there something instead of just nothing'?
There is a positive test for you. A physical challenge if you will. Take a pocket watch. Gather all the necessary components, springs etc. Put them into a box with a closed lid. Now, shake them around and see how long it takes for the watch to work in perfect order and on time. The point is, that the watch much like the world we live in has a 'designer'. We all didn't evolve from apes or a pool of lightning struck sludge millions of years ago. We, ourselves and all other forms of life were created by God. Plant life, snow flakes, etcetera have been made by a Designer. Much like a watch or a building has a desginer. Man in his constant quest to live his own way chooses to ignore and disobey the One who made them and loves them. Everyone has an eternal spirit within and when the appointed time comes God will reveal Himself in an unmistakable way. We just have to be willing to hear His call. Usually without great fanfare but in the quiteness of your heart.
If you seek Him with all your heart He will reveal Himself to you. Hope this helps. If you are wondering, yes I am a Christian.
When I was a young child, I looked in the sky and seemed to have had a comfort and assurance to what all I'd heard in Sunday School and Church was true. I gave my life over to God, his son and holy spirit. I live my life according to the word, through adversity, calamity, pain, sorrow and all the other misery in this life. Several years later, I had a serious surgery, and died 2 times within a week. I have memories of things I saw and heard on 'the other side', which is not exactly what I've heard others with the same experience tell. However, what I did see and hear is not earthly nor human and what people do tell about the experience is their personal human outlook. From that point on, my faith is so strong, I never wonder if there really isn't a God.
T each his own. Some other humans believe me, some don't. They call those like me names, laugh, joke around... So what. If you don't want to believe and live your life as such, you will be the one to deal with whatever comes your way, not me.
Some neighbors were talking about a poor man across town, who doesn't have a phone, electricity, water, checking account... so in reality, they cannot prove he exists.Do you think he does? If someone told you a house was haunted, you aren't going to believe it until you get in there and see for yourself, are you? You might not believe in a God until you get involved with him and other followers, then you will know, HE IS THERE!
I remember a very interesting study. A group was interested in discovering what effect studying science had on the religious views college students. New freshmen were given surveys to gauge their religious views. Then after taking biology, physics, and chemistry the students were given the same survey. The interesting thing was that religious students became more religious after studying science while non-religious became more sure that God and religion were not real.
I had what some people would call a psychic experience in high school. There was a girl I saw every day; she was the student cashier in the lunch room. Back then a hot lunch with milk was $.65 and I always paid with a dollar. She remembered me and would ring me up and get out my $.35 change when she saw me in the line. In the middle of the night I awoke thinking of her; I thought it odd but I went back to sleep. The next day I learned that she died in her sleep. At first I didn't want to tell anyone because I figured they wouldn't believe me and that they would think that it was awfull because I was making up stories about a girl who just died. When I did tell a few people I discovered exactly the opposite; not only did people believe me; they invested in my story. My best friend's religion was Eckenkar and when he and his parents heard my story they explained my experience in terms of their religion; other people with different cosmologies told me other explinations that reinforced their worldview. There were three points that occured to me that they should have considered:
1. It was a pure coincidence that I awoke thinking of her the night she died. Stranger things have happened.
2. I could be lying (I was telling the truth but nobody had any way of being sure; especially not sure enough to incorporate into their worldview)
3. I may have awoken thinking of her other times as well but she didn't die those times so it was quickly forgotten.
My 'psychic' experience taught me that people constantly look for evidence to reinforce their worldview. The worldview they have becomes the set of premises for everything. In the college student example religious college students might see the hand of God in biology, chemistry, and physics while non-religious students see a self-organizing orderly system that requires no outside influence to continue.
Poeple who find evidence of God in the cosmos are simply trying to find evidence of what they already believe.
After my 'psychic' experience I learned that humans are not very dependable in interpreting reality; we all have our assumptions that color our interpretation. We see what we want to see. The study of the way studying science effected the religious views of students was another excample of how our worldview changes how we view everything.
Can you see the wind ? No but you see the effects of it blowing through leaves of trees and you can hear it and feel it too. the wind is the perfect example of MY GOD. I cant see him but I feel him I hear him because he speaks to me . he healed me when no one else could help me. he healed my grandma. she literally had no heart beat when we were at the hospital and the doctor said she was dead but she was talking to me as plan as day. no one can convience me he isnt real. I feel him working in me. there's no other feeling like it in the world. it makes you cry and you have no control but to love him and say yes to his mighty power. you believe wut you want but I know god is real.
When anyone asks a question like this, inevitably there will be some who try writing a thesis and I doubt if this is what you are looking for as an answer. The answer is simply NO. God cannot be proven scientifically and you can't intellectually force scientists to recognize God. Neither can scientists prove God doesn't exist. It's impossible to prove a negative. However here's a question for you to ponder; 'why is there anything at all and not simply nothing?' Science can't answer that. If you have the necessary knowledge and intelligence, I suggest you read the book by Hans Kung called, 'Does God Exist'. It's a difficult read and isn't meant to be read by the uneducated laity. You also will not be able to read it in a few days and comprehend everything you've read but I believe the book will answer all of your questions.
Scientists develop theories, and either prove or disprove them. Thiests develop theories, but cannot PROVE them because it revolves around an intangible ideal. They can, however, find evidence to support their theories, and 'believe' them to be true. This is where FAITH comes into play...
when you look at yourself in the mirror you see gods creation when you see different people on the street you see god when you see the animals that roam the earth you see god! when you make a choice in life that does not sit right and you feel that choice turning inside your feeling god! when you hear your higher self either affirming or disagreeing with a situation in your life you are connecting with the soul that speaks to god! x x x x x x x x
Speak for yourself...
Don't assume (especially in here) that everyone agrees with you... ever...
So...
I've tallied the points. And so far... uhhh... nope... so far, the score is still tied.
0 - Proof God exists
0 - Proof God doesn't exist
I asked the same exact question in my mother's church, well the one she attends. It was a while back so I forgot most of what they said but I know that to God is real. You know this by FAITH. You're supposed to believe in him, because that same way he believes in you. [[melthecynic]] I'm not saying your wrong because everybody has their different beliefs, but at that same point you are no one to say about those who believe in God. Evolution, in what you say you believe, says that we come from apes and them go through this cycles and all these processes and then it is that we became humans, if that is so, why do we born naturally humans and don't go through that process? My point is that you have to believe in what scientists say, you have to have faith. Such as there are us who have faith in God. Nobody is wrong to believe in what they believe. You have your own freedom of choice. And people do not die because they sin. It just means that it was their time. There are millions of religious people whom have died before sinners, so your comment just doesn't make sense. I hope I helped you in any way. I have a wonderful relationship with my mother and I believe that God has lead my way to that. My mother is a christian woman and she's been leading me to her beliefs and so far they make sense. Take care and I hope you answer all doubts. LOTS OF LUCK, GOD BLESS <3
The correct answer is no. Any other response is ludicrous. Faith is just as worthless. If I suddenly had faith that my house was sitting above a gold deposit, the chances it is would be unchanged. Humans created gods. Any person praying to Allah, God, Zeus or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is wrong or misguided.
All this doesn't mean there are no gods, there is a possibility of anything. If there are gods, they have shown no evidence for their existence.
If you're looking for evidence of one, all you have are books written by humans about a God or gods. Otherwise you can only assume there aren't any.
'it's not easy believing in something thats not there' - yet here are all these people doing it like mad.
Amazing coincidences? When there are no rules about what is amazing enough, they're much more common than you'd think. How many people do you think about in a day? How many times do you suddenly think of somebody and they DON'T die - or they die and you don't think of them?
Your 'interior God' might be a useful concept, but do you have to call it God?
Like the 'first cause' argument, God as the answer to 'Why is there something rather than nothing?' just moves the problem one step back: why is there a God and something rather than nothing?
'Evolution, in what you say you believe, says that we come from apes and them go through this cycles and all these processes and then it is that we became humans, if that is so, why do we born naturally humans and don't go through that process?'
Doesn't sound as though you were taught about evolution by anyone who knew anything about it. Individuals don't go through evolutionary change. The changes are between generations. You are not the same as your parents. They are not the same as their parents. Apes are not the same as their parents, etc. Go back far enough and you find the same parents. We are the distant cousins of apes, and the very distant cousins of hummingbirds, roses, and seaweed.
'My point is that you have to believe in what scientists say, you have to have faith.' No you don't. If you can muster the evidence you are welcome to challenge anything any scientist says. Just try that at church!
'Nobody is wrong to believe in what they believe.' Oh really? What about those who believe God wants them to fly airliners into skyscrapers, and will reward them with 72 virgins in Paradise?
Yes, God is real. Stuff written in the Bible has been proven by a lot of people. We have found things that were talked about in the Bible (as in archaeological digs). They have also found things people back then wrote that tied in with the Bible, but it wasn't written by anyone who wrote the Bible.
Can you see the wind? No, but you know it is there and you see the effects. That's what God is like
Yes, actually you CAN see the wind...just not with the naked eye. Like a scent humans can't detect, but dogs can. Everything around us is made up of ATOMS, but even if you look at atoms with a powerful microscope, matter takes up a very small amount of space, and that matter has a habit of disappearing and re-appearing. At the time when the Bible was written, people belived in all sorts of things, which over time have been shown to be completely misguided. So if history is anything to go by, much of what we belive now, in 100-1000 years will be laughed about. Much like the fairy tales written in the bible, and the divisions of human beliefs about who's right & who is wrong - who's going to hell & who won't...it's pathetic & just causes more death & destruction than anything else on this planet...oh apart from man himself, who apparently is in GODS own image. We all know what is right & what is wrong, but how do you explain all the evil that comes from WITHIN church institutions?? You can read all about that too. Humans pollute, war against one another, etc, etc. If GOD is anything, he's probably a Dolphin looking character, shaking its pointy nose at us all!!! Sun,Water, Gravity & the Elements...our true creators.
Evil ALWAYS seeks to discredit God and His Word.
Every Christians answer... ask some of your paedophile Priests what EVIL is. By the way GOD didn't write the bible!!! Humans did!!! Nice fairy tales though. Oh I am sooo evil, I can feel the urges overcoming me now. Funny...I don't smoke, drink or take drugs...I teach children non-violent self defence, help people where I can, yes...I'm suuure going to hell!! I just won't be apart of something that causes more hatred & war than anything else on this planet...but you can amblessed...your my hero. I'm sure Jesus was a nice fella, but sorry...Mary & Joseph were his parents...not some imaginary figure. YOU NEED SPERM TO HAVE BABIES!!! Back then if you said the Earth was flat, you'd be nailed to a cross too. But you can believe something thats 2000 years old...you obviously need something to believe in, since your life is so EMPTY without it.
Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing.
Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing.
Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing.
Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing.
Welll,
'It's like the wind, I can't see it but I feel it'
You can't prove God is there. It isn't possible. But He is.
There is NO way that you can prove that there is a God. But I know that I believe that there is a God. There is not way that I can even try to explain it without uing the Bible.
St. Thamas Aquinas came up with 5 logical proofs for the existence of God. Some are better than others, but I will list them all anyway from strongest to weakest. Also, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (aka pope Benedict XVI) wrote on Christianity as a religion in the 1970s, and I will add a little from him at the end.
1. Argument from Motion: Nothing is possible of moving itself (see Newton's 1st law of motion). Therefore there had to be something that moved first in order to set everything else into motion. In the end (the beginning, since we are looking backwards through time) there could only be one thing to set the first object in motion, because multiple things would have to have been interacting with each other (see Newtwon's universal law of Gravitation). This thing that set the first object in motion would have to be eternal, and have had sufficient energy and intelligence to set the Universe in motion.
2. The Argument from Cause/Generation: No living thing is capable of making itself, it depends upon a previous cause for its existence. In the begining, there had to be something, because there is something now, and if there was nothing in the beginning then there wouldn't be anything now. Furthermore, the similarity of all things points to a common origin, which points to a single first cause.
3. The Argument from design: Nature seems to have been designed. From the smallest structure of the atom to the largest stars and galaxies, the universe works in a way that had to have been designed. All physicists agree that there is a universal Gravitational constant. Who decided that it should be what it is? There are so many things that had to have come together in order for life on earth to exist. When you consider the probability of all those things happening by chance, you realize that that probability is infinetecimally small. A scientific theory is defined as the best explanation for a given set of observations. All things considered, one realizes that we should have been made by an intelligent being after all.
4. The argument from heirarchy: In nature, there seems to be an structure, or hierarchy of beings. The cat is superior to the worm by structure, intelligence, and capability. The man is superior to the cat because of his superior knowledge of the world and his ability to ponder concepts beyond himself. He can consider truth, unity, goodness and beauty in a way that the cat cannot. However there must be something superior to man. Man is not perfect. His imperfections, and the fact that he recognizes his imperfections, points to the existence of a perfect being. Nearly all men recognize the necessity of loving one's neighbor as one's self. This good, along with the other transcendentals (higher things) point to the existence of something that is ultimate good.
5. the Argument from death/necessity: If things don't get the necessary sustainence, they die. How is it that the necessities exist? Why doesn't everything die? According to the law of energy conservation, there is a fixed amount of energy in the universe, and eventually, when it spreads out, everything will die. But how is it that life continues to generate new life? How has energy been so concentrated in living beings that it can continue to generate and re-generate and be used by all living things in such an efficient way? Consider the life cycle (producers, consumers, decomposers). How is it that engery is conserved and consumed so efficiently? Why didn't the first organisms just die, and that was the end? All we know is that they didn't. Science can answer some questions, but it doesn't answer that driving fundamental question: why?
Also, please consider truth the existence of truth. By truth, I mean the classic, Aristotalian definition: objective reality. I submit that truth cannot be relative. If one claims that truth is relative, they claim that that relativity itself is objective, which undercuts the fundamental prinicple that they are trying to argue. The book 'yes or no' by Peter Kreeft outlines all this quite well. I ask that you consider St. Thomas Aquinas' and Aristotle's definition of truth: 'Verum est ens' (truth is being/existence) and 'if I say that what is true in true, and what is false is false, I speak the truth. If I say that what is false is true and what is true is false, I speak a falsehood'
Finally, Cardinal Ratzinger pointed out in his book 'Introduction to Christianity' that 'no man can set God and his Kingdom before another man so that he must believe.' But like the Rabbi who argued with the atheist, everyone must consider that nagging, gnawing voice in the back of his mind: 'perhaps its true.' he compares the faithful man to the man who is adrift in the middle of the ocean, clinging to a piece of wood. He doesn't know where the wood will take him, but he beleives that he will be safe clinging to the wood that floats, rather than enter the unknown abyss of the deep. Ratzinger asserts that the wood, is the wood of the cross, and our faith, is a surrender to, a clinging to that wood, which will give us the best chance of survival.
look around you how were humans made and don't tell me by monkeys because then monkeys now can't turn into humans. Look at the air we breath their so many toxics in our air but it's porpotional for us to breathe healthy air and how can a woman carry a baby in her womb who made this world It couldn't form by itself why can't scientist made blood, human beings(without sex,and water? answer me that
Nothing can be proven either way. Darwin saw the finches of the Galapagos and wrote a book about how life ‘evolved’ from non-life. For decades science proved Darwin was right. Now that same science has proved him wrong. All we can do is give evidence. In science a major test of evidence being correct or not is the test of time.
For 4,000 years more or less, the evidence of God’s existence, has been accepted in the religious writings of the world. In it is stated that life was ‘created’ whole and intact, with everything provided to procreate accordingly. For the entire 4,000 years this tenet has been intact and unchanged. This in itself is quite a test of validity.
The sciences that have set out to disprove the existence of God, by showing that life on earth today is the result of slow, steady changes over millions of years from inorganic (non-living) elements; have in fact disproved their own “Theory”. The fossil evidence of the Cambrian “explosion” (of Canada and China and others) shows fully developed animals representing fifty phyla; (more phyla than are available today) all with fully formed and functioning body parts, and some with fully functioning eyes. Immediately under this Cambrian explosion is fossil evidence of one-celled animals. There is absolutely no evidence of intermediate life forms leading up to these Cambrian fossils.
The prominent British evolutionist Richard Dawkins, who studied the Cambrian fossils, stated that they seemed to be planted there without any evolutionary history. Enough evidence was amassed, to show that life did not evolve slowly, and the original Darwinian theory of evolution was abandoned by all but a few die hard scientists for a new ‘concept’ or theory called Punctuated Equilibrium. PE as it is called says that for a very long time nothing happened to the species of earth, they remained essentially unchanged, evolution as Darwin explained it did not occur, then for some currently unexplainable reason, old species gave way to new species that were whole and intact, with everything provided to procreate accordingly. This is exactly how the ‘word of God’ said it happened. In less than two hundred years the ‘science’ explanation of how life got here on earth has been abandoned and the Biblical explanation has been accepted, but given a different (“scientific”) name.
From a purely scientific point of view the religious explanation has so far withstood the test of time, while the scientific explanation has not. Therefore the evidence for the existence of God is better than the alternatives shown.
ok so this might sounds really silly, but it is the same concept, no one and I mean no one can prove that god excists!!! god is like father christmas, he excists in those who want to believe in him!
ok so this might sounds really silly, but it is the same concept, no one and I mean no one can prove that god excists!!! god is like father christmas, he excists in those who want to believe in him!
magictink:
Those things that exist, do so whether you believe in them or not.
magictink:
Those things that exist, do so whether you believe in them or not.
I believe in whats in my heart and yes God is there
pattijo:
I agree, those of us who believe and live accordingly dont need proof. Those who dont believe have never experienced the difference when there is divine guidance and therefore seek outside evidence.
You can not prove what does not exist, thus you can not prove it does not exist. Because there is no substance to prove either way. This is why the myth continues.
Proof is all around us. Proof is in every butterfly, every orchid, every example of flora and fauna that exists now or has ever existed on this Earth. Evolutionists have spoiled the concept of 'proof' with their defiant uninformed heart-and-soul dive into Darwin's Theory. They forever marred the credibility of science through their 'Educated Ignorance'. Science is a discipline of observation and duplication; nothing more. They removed it from a respected art form and reduced it to little more than a tool for speculation, by cramming it down everyone's throat on the basis of observation alone. Because they have taken the discipline of science, which is a valid means to gain knowledge, and perverted its purpose, by using observation only, and calling that Science, and using the legal system as legitimate proof that God does not exist: they have forever removed the credibility of the word “proof”. Because of these ‘educated idiots’ we can only show ‘evidence’. Proof has been proven to be unreliable.
go to http://www.answersingenesis.org.It's more a creation vs. evolution thing but still they have interesting stuff.
If you take every step of the debate from the big bang on, the scientific explanation is 'we dont know. If you include an outside force (God) into the equation it makes perfect sense. But... Our intellectual brothers would have to concede that there is someone or something out there that actually does know what it is doing. Instead of polluting and destroying everything it touches. Since they believe we are most intellectually advanced beings out there, that is just absurd.
Can you prove god?
Without using any sacred scriptures can you prove there is a God? Is it possible? Can a person prove to mee that there is a God without depending on the scriptures?I have asked many people this question and I am still at a loss for an answer as noone has been able to prove that there is a God the same as others have not been able to prove that God does not exist.
So here is a platform for you to test your convictions, prove to mee that God either does or does not exist!!
I believe God exists, not as an exterior God but rather an internal one and I am compiling information, all sorts of information as that is my diety of choice (information). So please help mee compile my information, any help will be appriciated.
Thank you for taking the time to read my discussion and for leaving a response. Have a nice day and please tell mee what you think!!