Can we know god in the same way that we know a tree?

Can we know God in the same way that we know a tree?

The purpose of this question is for me to see how Christians think when they think about their god.

I would like to tell you something about myself. I am an atheist. As your can see from my...

profile I just turned 58. I have a number of college degrees, mostly in technology. Most of my work experience has been in the field of energy conservation. As an aside, the odds of hydrogen being the primary energy source for the majority of cars is slim to none! I believe that the plug-in battery will become the major source of energy for most cars-if and when they develop a practical battery.

Even though my education and work experience has been in engineering/technology, I think more like a scientist. In fact, I do not like most engineers. Most of them do not know how to think. Most scientists do!!!

Let us now discuss my question.

Here is my dictionary’s definition of “know”:

know v. To be cognizant of; have a concept of in the mind through seeing, reading, reading, hearing, etc.

This is the primary definition in my dictionary. My dictionary is: Standard College Dictionary, COPYRIGHT 1963 by FUNK & WAGALLIS Company, Inc.

Now I know some people (captainassassin comes to mind) do not like my dictionary-it is too old. All I have to say about this is that I am old and my dictionary is old, but we both get along just fine. I see no reason to change.

The primary definition deals with the five senses. When you reply to my question please keep this in mind. If you talk about God please keep my definition in mind. Try to keep the metaphysics down to a bare minimum.

Here are some ground rules:

in my question dealing with the Christian Bible, the following words were used to describe me-moron, idiot, baby, prick. In your reply, if you use these words or similar words I will ignore you. I will not reply to your reply. If you send me a second reply using the aforementioned words or similar words I will do everything in my power to have you PERMANENTLY BANNED from this site.

I would like it if ruben1211 not respond to my site. In his one and only reply to this site he called me an idiot. Ruben1211 did the equivalent of a hit and run. He can dish it out, but he cannot take it.

If you are a Christian please try not to use the equivalent of “God works in wondrous ways” in your reply. It really does not explain anything.

Some of the people who responded to my Christian Bible question have very dark personalities. If you reply to this question please let a little sunshine into your reply.

This is the end of the ground rules-ought you happy.

I await your replies.

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If The Holy Spirit resides in ones Heart - that person KNOWS God. :-)

To: amblessed
From: joseph1949

Your reply is equivalent to "God works in wondrous ways." It explains nothing

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Joseph1949, I think you will find it frutiful to study a branch of philosophy called epistomology. This branch of philosophy deals with the nature of knowledge.

No doubt there are Christians for whom God is subjectively just as real as a tree they see, feel, hear, taste, and smell. What we argue about is if God is objectively true. Or, does God still exist when you stop believing in him?

Thank you for your opinion - again, this is what I know to be Fact: If The Holy Spirit resides in ones Heart - that person KNOWS God (if they have recieved/accepted salvation) - one can deny, but not argue a Fact - just like Jesus Christ, joseph1949, you either accept or reject - it is abundantly clear by your statement >>> I am an atheist <<< your rejection stance...you know you have a need and it's not being met...Happy Thanksgiving !!

*sigh*

This crap again?

You're asking Christians to explain their faith, but without using 'faith' in their explanations. The question is pointless. They can no more prove to you that God exists, than you can prove that God doesn't exist.

>>>If you send me a second reply using the aforementioned words or similar words I will do everything in my power to have you PERMANENTLY BANNED from this site.

Oh, I'd like to see you do that, baby.

To: xiigzag
From: josepn1949

That's once.

To: filletofspam
From: joseph1949

Thank you for your reply.

I have studied epistomology. Epistomology deals with the question: How do we know what we know.

Epistomology has done wonderful things for science. It has tied religion into knots.

Science has given us vaccines. Religion has given us a thousand different ways to kill a witch. Enough said.

Thank you.

Everyone needs something to believe in. I myself believe in the power of oneself, and our amazing untapped abilities to create & overcome many of the hardships man has created for himself. Governments unfortunately concentrate nearly all their energy into ECONOMIES & producing wealth, even in this day & age of great apparent wisdom, very little energy is put into the sustainability of our environment. If we were to know God as we do trees, and faith was put back into that which sustains life & which we can see, touch, taste...the world would be a better place. I also believe that many people take this stance of you either accepting of rejecting something too far, then choose to ridicule if you don't believe what they believe, doing their best to strike fear into your heart...and in the past this has caused many unnecessary conflicts, resulting in many unnecessary wars, death & destruction. Despite how many people interpret the bible, and take the I'm right your misguided stance...I think it is healthy to question, and not take things at face value. If humans never questioned where would we be today? If you look at religions, and their are many...most of them have this view of being correct and true. Christians for example believe if you don't know Jesus personally, you won't be saved...I've always wondered how that applies to the millions of people that lived before Jesus...or if you were Buddhist for example, praying daily for peace & compassion...I guess they'll just burn in HELL for not know Jesus personally, at least with Buddhism they embrace all religions...and just want all beings to live in PEACE, instead of taking a the position of "I'm right" but your going to burn in eternal brimstone, if you don't do as my book says. I also wonder what happens to all those who poor souls who are unable, for whatever reason, to follow their way. I don't think the life force of ALL beings is so choosy...and that, that way of thinking is as backward as many of the worlds governments today.

>>> I've always wondered how that applies to the millions of people that lived before Jesus <<< - if you study what Jesus did in the 3 days between His crusifiction and ressurrection, you'll find that answer.

Damn, he didn't ignore me. Liar.

I don't think he counted 'liar' or 'baby' as one of those words...

I'm sure I'll be able to study 'accurately' what Jesus did for 3 days 2000+ years ago between his crusifiction and ressurrection, in the bible...right? ...Thanks Bill, I'm sure that'll clear things up for me.

To: captainassassin
From: joseph1949

You seem to be fixated on the words “sign” and “crap”. I suggest that you consult your new, improved dictionary for different words. I know that my old-fashioned dictionary has several alternatives for these two words.

Now for your statement.

captainassassin, you jumped ahead. I was going to explain that if one is to believe in God it has to be through faith. It has been my understanding the most conservative Christians believe in God based on facts.

I was trying with my question to understand how Christians believe in God based on facts as one would believe in the existence of a tree.

The ultimate question for the existence of God is for another question.

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To: xiigzag
From: joseph1949

It seems we have two misunderstandings. Those banned words were related to a reply to my question. Your “baby” was directed to one of my guidelines. You did not reply to my question, as such!!!

The second misunderstanding is in how you were using “baby”. Was it a form of endearment or was it that you think that I act like a baby.

In any event, why don’t you start over and see what happens.

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***You seem to be fixated on the words “sign”... ***

...you mean 'sigh'

***captainassassin, you jumped ahead. I was going to explain that if one is to believe in God it has to be through faith. It has been my understanding the most conservative Christians believe in God based on facts.***

No, they believe in God based on what they 'believe' to be facts. Just as you 'believe' there is no God, placing emphasis on various resources and arguments that support your view, but inevitably cannot 'prove' it to be true.

***I was trying with my question to understand how Christians believe in God based on facts as one would believe in the existence of a tree.***

As for your thread question; factoring in the dated definition of the word 'know' that you provided, it ends up as a simple yes/no question. The answer is NO

***The ultimate question for the existence of God is for another question.***

It seems to be a VERY prominent part of your topic.

To: amblessed
From: joseph1949

sensei was able to answer amblessed's question before I did, but I can still contribute my two cents- in the three days between the resurrection and crucifixion Christ was doing "dead" based on my reading of the Bible. You cannot do a whole lot while you are dead.

thank you. thankyouverymuch

To:captainassassin
From: joseph1949

Thank you for pointing out my typo. I stand corrected.

I would like for Christians to send in their replies to my question. I do not believe captainassassin speaks for Christians.

I am an atheist because I have no knowledge of God. Resources and arguments concerning the existence of God or the non-existence of God have no meaning for me.

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***I would like for Christians to send in their replies to my question. I do not believe captainassassin speaks for Christians.***

Actually I do... but only the good ones...

***I am an atheist because I have no knowledge of God.***

'knowledge' meaning YOUR definition of the word, correct? Requiring any of the five senses, or combination of the five senses; in order to gain knowledge of a particular topic?

***Resources and arguments concerning the existence of God or the non-existence of God have no meaning for me.***

Then you aren't atheist.

Why, allow me.

>>>The purpose of this question is for me to see how Christians think when they think about their god.

If that's really your intention, then you shouldn't expect them to respond in your terms. Sounds like you're more interested in proving yourself right and other people wrong.

>>>I think more like a scientist.

My degree is in biology; I've been trained to think like a scientist since my sophomore year in college. Fortunately, I also like to be flexible and accept that everyone thinks differently. If you can't understand why some people believe in God... you never will.

>>>I would like for Christians to send in their replies to my question.

Too bad no matter how satisfactory their replies are you just won't give them a second thought, you're so convinced you're right.